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Does the bible actually teach evolution?

Wrong. I can read very well but I have no faith in bronze age drivel. I guess in a book as big as the bible is you will sometimes find some truth in it but its very sparse and mixed in with superstition, contradictions and nonsense.

It was a generic "You"

Its not all about you yanno, well less you want to believe it's all about you, in which case you'll get offended easily where no offense is intended
like you just did
:D
 
Have you been living in a close somewhere?
not exactly.
i live quite an isolated life, though.
i live in the bush in a fairly remote location.
this is my connection to the world, and verrrrry slow dialup at that.
(and cbc radio)
i haven't had or watched tv for years.
i have only known of dawkins as an outspoken athiest.
i was not aware of his works.
thanks for that .
i always enjoy learning.:)
 
not exactly.
i live quite an isolated life, though.
i live in the bush in a fairly remote location.
this is my connection to the world, and verrrrry slow dialup at that.
(and cbc radio)
i haven't had or watched tv for years.
i have only known of dawkins as an outspoken athiest.
i was not aware of his works.
thanks for that .
i always enjoy learning.:)

Well get yourself some ebooks of Dawkins stuff and you'll be amazed and probably the bush's most educated person on evolution. A couple more awesome books are Why Evolution Is True by Jerry Coyne and Evolution: What The Fossils Say And Why It Matters by Donald Prothero. Another great book is Neil Shubin's Your Inner Fish.
 
The bible teaches that everything was created by God exactly as it is now (with one exception), so theres been no change,
No it doesn't. I'd like to see you try and support this claim. People who claim this are usually fundies with no knowledge of even Hebrew and Aramaic, let alone the idiomatic language used in the Genesis story.
 
While you could say that it is describing an evolutionary process, that is only because it is so vauge as to leave room for subjective interpretation. It is that same vaugness that makes it powerless to impart any real knowledge about the mechanics of the story. Whehter it was through evolution or creation, Genesis tells us nothing about how things were made.
That is exactly right. It is a poetical history. Specifically, it's in a Hebrew literary mode known as a "royal chronicle" that has not existed in English literature. It's often referred to as "metaphorical", because that is probably the closest English equivalent; but that's not strictly accurate either, since there is no attempt to explain the exact process through explanatory imagery.

All that Genesis tells us is that G-D called the universe into being, set the fundamental laws by which it always has and always will operate (until the day it is renewed and remade) and showed that through his power all things were brought into being. There is nothing anywhere that gives a timeline* or exposition of the actual process.
As an aside, i would thingk most people that believe in Judeo Christian religions would strongly disagree with that particular interpretation of Genesis.
You'd think that, if your knowledge of Judeo-Christian people was too limited to understand what the majority believe.



*Bishop Ussher notwithstanding, as although he was at the time a distinguished scholar of the languages, he lacked a significant understanding of the textual modes as well as the mechanics of the language; and he engaged in a consider amount of confirmation bias. Likewise, most modern scholars that rely on a literal timeline misunderstand make two basic errors, mistranslating "ywm" as a literal day, and misunderstanding the nature of Hebrew genealogical notation.
 
T its pretty clear in Genesis that God creates everything at the same time on specific days, that people then attempt to claim a day is millions of years is just bs,

Nope, that is where you demonstrate your profound ignorance.

The Hebrew word ywm that is interpreted "day" is actually capable of being interpreted in multiple ways: both as a literal 24 hour day, and as a poetic, metaphorical day, more properly rendered as "age" or "era". (Interestingly, the English word "day" is similarly capable of both literal and poetical interpretations.)

Since the story of creation is in a poetical mode, the "age" interpretation is actually the more accurate.

This has long been a controversy in the Church, known as the "Day/Age Controversy"; and a point of contention between the radical fundamentalist literalists, few of whom have a strong grounding in the idiomatic langauge; and the more scholarly and less dogmatic types.

The main point of argument is not whether the word can be interpreted either way, but what indicators exist that it should be interpreted in a particular way. The main contention of the literalists is that the interpretation should match the existing use of the word in the rest of scripture; and that usage outside the scripture should not affect interpretation. Since the word is used literally everywhere else in the canon, it should be used literally here. The scholarly counterpoint is that it should be interpreted according to its usage in the language in general, how the average reader of the time would have understood it, using contemporary usage to determine interpretation.

The literalist argument fails on three points: 1) The literary mode of the story requires a metaphoric rather than literal interpretation. 2) Despite their assertions, the word is not used literally everywhere else in canon. There are two clear places where it is used metaphorically (the literalists have argued against this, but the passages are rendered nonsensical with a literary interpretation). 3) Asserting that a text can only be interpreted within itself is circular reasoning. A text must be understood by those who are its intended audience; therefore an examination of the language as understood by the mass of the people requires the inclusion of contemporary texts in order to fully understand the common usage.

Interpreters of a less agenda-driven and more objective nature universally interpret ywm metaphorically instead of literally. Therefore, even if one ascribes a to a literal genealogy (which, as was pointed out earlier, is not necessarily correct); there are still 5 "days" preceding the creation of Man which can easily account for the vast amounts of geologic and astronomical time measures; and even the creation of Man during the 6th "day" occurs in the context of a long period of time, not a single day.

Interestingly, the Roman Catholic church, the largest Christian denomination, does not take an official stance; but overwhelmingly accepts a version of theistic evolution as the most likely mechanism for the creation; with only the existence of the human soul or higher consciousness requiring a direct, divine intervention in the process. Most of the other major denominations, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant, take a similar view. Scripture is there to teach of Man's relationship to God, not science.
 
Nope, that is where you demonstrate your profound ignorance.

The Hebrew word ywm that is interpreted "day" is actually capable of being interpreted in multiple ways: both as a literal 24 hour day, and as a poetic, metaphorical day, more properly rendered as "age" or "era". (Interestingly, the English word "day" is similarly capable of both literal and poetical interpretations.)

Since the story of creation is in a poetical mode, the "age" interpretation is actually the more accurate.

This has long been a controversy in the Church, known as the "Day/Age Controversy"; and a point of contention between the radical fundamentalist literalists, few of whom have a strong grounding in the idiomatic langauge; and the more scholarly and less dogmatic types.

The main point of argument is not whether the word can be interpreted either way, but what indicators exist that it should be interpreted in a particular way. The main contention of the literalists is that the interpretation should match the existing use of the word in the rest of scripture; and that usage outside the scripture should not affect interpretation. Since the word is used literally everywhere else in the canon, it should be used literally here. The scholarly counterpoint is that it should be interpreted according to its usage in the language in general, how the average reader of the time would have understood it, using contemporary usage to determine interpretation.

The literalist argument fails on three points: 1) The literary mode of the story requires a metaphoric rather than literal interpretation. 2) Despite their assertions, the word is not used literally everywhere else in canon. There are two clear places where it is used metaphorically (the literalists have argued against this, but the passages are rendered nonsensical with a literary interpretation). 3) Asserting that a text can only be interpreted within itself is circular reasoning. A text must be understood by those who are its intended audience; therefore an examination of the language as understood by the mass of the people requires the inclusion of contemporary texts in order to fully understand the common usage.

Interpreters of a less agenda-driven and more objective nature universally interpret ywm metaphorically instead of literally. Therefore, even if one ascribes a to a literal genealogy (which, as was pointed out earlier, is not necessarily correct); there are still 5 "days" preceding the creation of Man which can easily account for the vast amounts of geologic and astronomical time measures; and even the creation of Man during the 6th "day" occurs in the context of a long period of time, not a single day.

Interestingly, the Roman Catholic church, the largest Christian denomination, does not take an official stance; but overwhelmingly accepts a version of theistic evolution as the most likely mechanism for the creation; with only the existence of the human soul or higher consciousness requiring a direct, divine intervention in the process. Most of the other major denominations, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant, take a similar view. Scripture is there to teach of Man's relationship to God, not science.

So plants, trees and grass that need sunlight to survive were created ages before the sun. Ok got it, thanks for clearing that up.
 
So plants, trees and grass that need sunlight to survive were created ages before the sun. Ok got it, thanks for clearing that up.

Can you explain how you reached that outcome from what was written by the poster :confused:
 
Nope, that is where you demonstrate your profound ignorance.

The Hebrew word ywm that is interpreted "day" is actually capable of being interpreted in multiple ways: both as a literal 24 hour day, and as a poetic, metaphorical day, more properly rendered as "age" or "era". (Interestingly, the English word "day" is similarly capable of both literal and poetical interpretations.)

Since the story of creation is in a poetical mode, the "age" interpretation is actually the more accurate.

This has long been a controversy in the Church, known as the "Day/Age Controversy"; and a point of contention between the radical fundamentalist literalists, few of whom have a strong grounding in the idiomatic langauge; and the more scholarly and less dogmatic types.

The main point of argument is not whether the word can be interpreted either way, but what indicators exist that it should be interpreted in a particular way. The main contention of the literalists is that the interpretation should match the existing use of the word in the rest of scripture; and that usage outside the scripture should not affect interpretation. Since the word is used literally everywhere else in the canon, it should be used literally here. The scholarly counterpoint is that it should be interpreted according to its usage in the language in general, how the average reader of the time would have understood it, using contemporary usage to determine interpretation.

The literalist argument fails on three points: 1) The literary mode of the story requires a metaphoric rather than literal interpretation. 2) Despite their assertions, the word is not used literally everywhere else in canon. There are two clear places where it is used metaphorically (the literalists have argued against this, but the passages are rendered nonsensical with a literary interpretation). 3) Asserting that a text can only be interpreted within itself is circular reasoning. A text must be understood by those who are its intended audience; therefore an examination of the language as understood by the mass of the people requires the inclusion of contemporary texts in order to fully understand the common usage.

Interpreters of a less agenda-driven and more objective nature universally interpret ywm metaphorically instead of literally. Therefore, even if one ascribes a to a literal genealogy (which, as was pointed out earlier, is not necessarily correct); there are still 5 "days" preceding the creation of Man which can easily account for the vast amounts of geologic and astronomical time measures; and even the creation of Man during the 6th "day" occurs in the context of a long period of time, not a single day.

Interestingly, the Roman Catholic church, the largest Christian denomination, does not take an official stance; but overwhelmingly accepts a version of theistic evolution as the most likely mechanism for the creation; with only the existence of the human soul or higher consciousness requiring a direct, divine intervention in the process. Most of the other major denominations, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant, take a similar view. Scripture is there to teach of Man's relationship to God, not science.

Luckily, regardless of all that, there is an extensive genealogy that shows us that Earth is roughly 6000 years old.
 
You'd think that, if your knowledge of Judeo-Christian people was too limited to understand what the majority believe.

You mistook what I was saying. My phrasing was a little odd, so I understand why. I was not making a statement about what people believed at all. Wether or not they take the bible literally, I was wondering out loud if the majority of people who follow Judeo Christian religions would see Genesis as possibly describing evolutionary processes.

Did I somehow offend you? If so it was unintentional. I find your phrasing here to be a little snarky, though. I think people on this forum could stand to be a bit friendlier to each other.

If you are going to post a comment on this, at least take the time to explain what your understanding of the majority interpretation is, please. Do you think the majority of Judeo-Christian believers would interpret Genesis as describing evolution? That is what I get from your comment.

Regards, Canis
 
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http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/interp/evolution.html

Does the Bible teach evolution?
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree. -- Genesis 1:11
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. -- Genesis 1:24

Notice that God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants and animals, rather than create them directly. So maybe the creationists have it all wrong. Maybe Genesis is not so anti-evolution after all.

Reminds me of cold reading.
 
Can you explain how you reached that outcome from what was written by the poster :confused:

Are you serious? Aren't you familiar with Genesis? The poster said each day was really an age. Do you care to tell us what day trees were created and then what day the sun was created? Recall that he said those were ages then please stop trolling and contribute to the thread.
 
Are you serious? Aren't you familiar with Genesis? The poster said each day was really an age. Do you care to tell us what day trees were created and then what day the sun was created? Recall that he said those were ages then please stop trolling and contribute to the thread.

Your hissy fits impress no one. For the record light was created on the first day and trees on the third day

Here is a link in case you want to try and argue the point

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NIV
 
genesis gives virtually no explanation for the creation of the universe.
it is a much more 'localized' creation story.
Right, all the lights in the sky were coming from cracks in heaven. :rolleyes:

What is obvious to any objective observer, is the Bible and all other creation stories are stories conjured up by humans to explain what humans could see and experience. So of course there is no Universe described in the Bible beyond the Sun, stars and Moon. Humans of the day were unaware of anything beyond what they could see.

BTW, the Moon is described as a light ruling the night despite the fact the Moon's light is all reflected, rather than coming from the Moon, and we can often see the Moon during the day. The Bible got this basic fact wrong which is evidence people had no supernatural input when they made up the Biblical creation story.
 
BTW, the Moon is described as a light ruling the night despite the fact the Moon's light is all reflected, rather than coming from the Moon, and we can often see the Moon during the day. The Bible got this basic fact wrong which is evidence people had no supernatural input when they made up the Biblical creation story.

Which is one of the reasons that this particular part of the Bible has not been taken from a literal point of view for most of Christian history
 
Which is one of the reasons that this particular part of the Bible has not been taken from a literal point of view for most of Christian history
Everything in the Bible that is so obviously wrong even the theists have a hard time with it conveniently becomes a 'parable'. :rolleyes:
 
noreligion said:
please stop trolling and contribute to the thread... I said sun. When was the sun created now stop your trolling bs.
Hmm, rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black I feel :cool:. Less of the ad hominem attacks if you please.

Yuri
 

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