Does Palestine Have A Government?

[Mycroft]

Well, if you've made your mind up that that's the case, nothing I can say will make a difference.

Show some evidence to the contrary.

 

[zenith-nadir]

There seems to be some confusion on this subject, so please let each person with an opinion state that opinion and abide by the consequences.

There is no confusion. The PNA was established in 1994 and it is the internationally recognized body who represents the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank.

Isn't Hammas Palestine's government?

-Andrew

Yup. Hamas - recognized by the US, EU, Canada and Israel as a terrorist organization - won a landslide victory in the 2006 elections. It is the ruling party of the PNA.

....the question is whether they do in fact act as a government.

So far, I'd say no.

Correct. Hamas's intention is to continue "the jihad" against Israel, it rejects the idea of recognizing Israel, it rejects disarmament, and it's ideology remains hateful and distorted. After a suicide bombing that killed nine outside a fast-food restaurant in Tel Aviv last April Hamas didn't condemn the attack, instead senior officials called suicide bombing "justified."

Well, they haven't exactly had much of a chance.

Let's say Al Qaeda won some elections in Afghanistan or Pakistan, would you soften your principles regarding terrorism and give Al Qaeda "a chance" too? Or would you demand that Al Qaeda renounce terrorism, recognise America's right to exist and change its anti-Western policies before you support Al Qaeda?

After the election, Israel and the West froze all funds going to the PA, ensuring that the government basically couldn't function at all.

That's because as a terrorist organization those countries HAVE LAWS against funding terrorist organizations...AKA "religious fanatics who relish suicide bombings."

Sunday, July 31, 2005 - San Francisco Chronicle

This is summer camp in the Gaza Strip, as organized by Harakat al-Moqawama al-Islamiyah, the Islamic Resistance Movement, better known as Hamas -- which is officially regarded by the United States and many other countries as a terrorist organization that has killed hundreds of Israelis.

{snip}

At one beach camp, attended by approximately 100 kids, an instructor wore a heavy flannel shirt under which a webbed belt could be seen strapped to his stomach. Asked by a reporter what it was, he answered, with a broad smile, "Boom!"

The instructor led a group of young teenagers through marching drills on the sand -- facing movements, close quarter drill. With a smile at the reporter, he put a megaphone to his lips.

"What are you?" he called.

"Monsters!" the kids replied.

"What are you?!"

"MONSTERS!"

{snip}

Across camp, a group of younger children -- most between 10 and 12 -- sat in a circle in the sand singing one of the "intifada songs" they learn at camp. One boy sang verses in a rolling soprano as the others joined in on the one-word chorus.

"We don't want to sleep.

HA-A-MAS!

We want revenge.

HA-A-MAS!

Raise it up.

HA-A-MAS!

Rifle fire.

HA-A-MAS!

If it will take a thousand martyrs.

HA-A-MAS!

Kill Zionists.

HA-A-MAS!

Wherever they are.

HA-A-MAS!

In the name of God.

HA-A-MAS!"

Then, after Israel launched the war in Gaza, the IDF rounded up virtually the entire Palestinian parliament and a sizeable chunk of the cabinet ministers.

...and that was after Hamas militants infiltrated into Israel - through a tunnel under the border from Gaza - kidnapped an Israeli soldier and killed two others.

As far as I am aware, they are still being held (without trial or charges, of course). There's not much governing that can be done from a prison cell.

Damn Israeli's...

 

[fuelair]

There is no confusion. The PNA was established in 1994 and it is the internationally recognized body who represents the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank.

Yup. Hamas - recognized by the US, EU, Canada and Israel as a terrorist organization - won a landslide victory in the 2006 elections. It is the ruling party of the PNA.

Correct. Hamas's intention is to continue "the jihad" against Israel, it rejects the idea of recognizing Israel, it rejects disarmament, and it's ideology remains hateful and distorted. After a suicide bombing that killed nine outside a fast-food restaurant in Tel Aviv last April Hamas didn't condemn the attack, instead senior officials called suicide bombing "justified."

Let's say Al Qaeda won some elections in Afghanistan or Pakistan, would you soften your principles regarding terrorism and give Al Qaeda "a chance" too? Or would you demand that Al Qaeda renounce terrorism, recognise America's right to exist and change its anti-Western policies before you support Al Qaeda?

That's because as a terrorist organization those countries HAVE LAWS against funding terrorist organizations...AKA "religious fanatics who relish suicide bombings."



...and that was after Hamas militants infiltrated into Israel - through a tunnel under the border from Gaza - kidnapped an Israeli soldier and killed two others.

Damn Israeli's...

Well Cleon is a Dalek, so he would support Hezbllsht and Hamass as they are just a bit less efficient as exterminators. Now we need a WHO or an IDF to open up the proverbial can of whuppbutt on them - and make it stick - like the Doctor did to the Daleks.

 

[UserGoogol]

That's a characteristic of a de facto government, but I don't think that's a very good definition. How about: A society's institution of laws and people whose purpose it is establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to themselves and their posterity.

That seems too restrictive and normative a definition. A bad government is a government too. Surely, nobody would say that Nazi Germany had no government, it just wasn't a very good one.

I think a monopoly on force is better, although that's not quite it, in that no government has a complete monopoly on force. People use force against each other from time to time in the United States, for instance, it's just that generally the government will be pissed off at that and try to stop it.

 

[Dr Adequate]

That's why I said "effective" monopoly of force.

Aren't I the sly one?