Merged Does CERN prove Einstein wrong?

[Anders Lindman]

Since when have you paid any attention to how easy or difficult something would be to fake when deciding it was faked? If you saw a video how they did the measurements do you really think you couldn't come up with a reason why it was faked, even if it made no sense to rational people at all?

It depends on how the measurements are done. People often come up with all sorts of clever solutions to those kinds of problems.

 

[Anders Lindman]

I said I have knowledgeably worked on nuclear power plants and know the principles by which they operate, and can attest to how they work. You have said that they are really zero-point energy plants instead. Please explain to everyone how you can profess that belief without calling me a liar.

The idea of water fuel cell plants is just a very speculative conspiracy theory. And unless you have worked with the actual reactor and have full knowledge about it working through nuclear fission then not even you would notice the difference.

 

[JayUtah]

It depends on how the measurements are done. People often come up with all sorts of clever solutions to those kinds of problems.

You're dodging his question. You have come up with a number of irrational and fanciful ways of evading uncomfortable facts. What assurance does anyone have that you won't just irrationally reject the new facts you're asking for? You're saying that some facts can't be rationally rejected, and that's true. But the rational objectivity of facts has never kept you from denying them.

 

[JayUtah]

...

The idea of water fuel cell plants is just a very speculative conspiracy theory.

Do you believe that theory? Yes or no.

And unless you have worked with the actual reactor and have full knowledge about it working through nuclear fission then not even you would notice the difference.

I have stated several times that I have, and that I am fully aware of how those plants operate. Are you telling me I know know my own profession?

 

[Anders Lindman]

So in any case it has to be a conspiracy, huh?

Not because of the Saturn V rocket but many other things indicate that it was a conspiracy, like too much gravity in the supposed astronauts on the moon films, too black-and-white moon landscapes, too much Scotchlite background studio projection style photographs and too risky project to broadcast live.

 

[Anders Lindman]

The idea of water fuel cell plants is just a very speculative conspiracy theory.

Do you believe that theory? Yes or no.

And unless you have worked with the actual reactor and have full knowledge about it working through nuclear fission then not even you would notice the difference.

I have stated several times that I have, and that I am fully aware of how those plants operate. Are you telling me I know know my own profession?

No, I don't believe in the theory at the moment because it's too speculative, but if evidence turns up supporting it I may change my mind.

Have you directly worked with a nuclear reactor, and are you sure there is no burning chamber there? Isn't there tight security involved in who has access to the reactor?

 

[JayUtah]

Not because of the Saturn V rocket but many other things...

We'll get to the "many other things," which happens to be a topic on which I'm a world-recognized expert.

But now we're talking about the Saturn V, so please don't change the subject. The point is that you started out saying that the "smaller" Saturn V was proof there was a conspiracy to use it for military purposes. But now that you've been backed into a corner over that, you admit that you think there's a conspiracy no matter what size the rocket is. Therefore the size of the rocket has no bearing on your theory.

Isn't it about time for you to concede that the rocket-size question is just a wild goose chase?

 

[dasmiller]

I have stated several times that I have, and that I am fully aware of how those plants operate. Are you telling me I know know my own profession?

(assuming that "know know" was supposed to be "don't know")

Or you're part of the conspiracy

What Anders doesn't suspect is that the conspiracy is actually far larger than he imagines. You see, things really do work the way that we say (relativity, fission, the moon landing, etc) but we make the stories so consistent and coherent that they appear to be faked. Thus, we keep Anders and his ilk from ever learning the underlying real-world physics while putting it all out in the open.

Muah ha ha!

 

[JayUtah]

...

No, I don't believe in the theory at the moment because it's too speculative, but if evidence turns up supporting it I may change my mind.

What about your other theories then, for which there is no evidence? Shouldn't you re-examine those too?

Have you directly worked with a nuclear reactor, and are you sure there is no burning chamber there?

Yes.

Isn't there tight security involved in who has access to the reactor?

Yes.

 

[aggle-rithm]

There are (at least) two conspiracy theory alternatives; 1) the Saturn V rockets were as large as they claim, or 2) the Saturn V rockets were in reality smaller than they claim. In both cases they could have been used for putting military equipment into space. I'm just hedging my bets here.

If you really want to hedge your bets, why not consider the possibility that the Saturn V was a giant petunia disguised as a rocket?

I mean, as long as we're making stuff up.

 

[Anders Lindman]

No, I don't believe in the theory at the moment because it's too speculative, but if evidence turns up supporting it I may change my mind.

What about your other theories then, for which there is no evidence? Shouldn't you re-examine those too?

The 9/11 attacks for example was definitely some kind of conspiracy. See the AE911 Truth documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-jzCfa4eQ

 

[Anders Lindman]

We'll get to the "many other things," which happens to be a topic on which I'm a world-recognized expert.

But now we're talking about the Saturn V, so please don't change the subject. The point is that you started out saying that the "smaller" Saturn V was proof there was a conspiracy to use it for military purposes. But now that you've been backed into a corner over that, you admit that you think there's a conspiracy no matter what size the rocket is. Therefore the size of the rocket has no bearing on your theory.

Isn't it about time for you to concede that the rocket-size question is just a wild goose chase?

The case for a moon hoax is strong without the rocket! What I said was that if the Saturn V rocket turns out to be smaller than what they claim, then that strengthens the moon hoax theory tremendously. And I have said all the time that the Saturn V may be the size they claim. So you are wrong about me having changed my mind about this.

 

[Anders Lindman]

If you really want to hedge your bets, why not consider the possibility that the Saturn V was a giant petunia disguised as a rocket?

I mean, as long as we're making stuff up.

If you can show how the NRO could have used the giant petunia for military purposes you might have a case, lol.

 

[JayUtah]

...

The case for a moon hoax is strong without the rocket!

Strong in the sense of having credible, verifiable evidence? Or strong in the sense that you'll make up any hogwash you need to in order to satisfy your urge to believe?

What I said was that if the Saturn V rocket turns out to be smaller than what they claim, then that strengthens the moon hoax theory tremendously.

Exactly how so? You haven't given any reason why the actual size of the rocket should differ from the public claims.

So you are wrong about me having changed my mind about this.

But in fact you believe in a conspiracy no matter what size the rocket is. So we can factor that out of your argument. No matter how the facts turn out, you're going to claim conspiracy. So all that tedious mucking about with measuring rockets and buildings can be omitted.

 

[JayUtah]

The 9/11 attacks for example was definitely some kind of conspiracy

You missed the point. You seem to believe or posulate a lot for which you have no actual evidence. Does it bother you that your belief system seems unaffected by fact?

 

[tsig]

The idea of water fuel cell plants is just a very speculative conspiracy theory. And unless you have worked with the actual reactor and have full knowledge about it working through nuclear fission then not even you would notice the difference.

I worked in constructing a nuclear plant. Looked real to me.

 

[Anders Lindman]

What I said was that if the Saturn V rocket turns out to be smaller than what they claim, then that strengthens the moon hoax theory tremendously.

Exactly how so? You haven't given any reason why the actual size of the rocket should differ from the public claims.

Because then Saturn V could not be the kind of rocket that could carry the LEM etc.

 

[Anders Lindman]

You missed the point. You seem to believe or posulate a lot for which you have no actual evidence. Does it bother you that your belief system seems unaffected by fact?

Yeah! I often post all kinds of wild speculations. But I try to have some kind of connection to related facts. For example the nuclear power plants being water fuel plants speculative theory fits the fact that there often are hydrogen explosions in the case of disasters. They claim it's because of a special process involving some exotic metal used to cover the rods with, something like that. That sounds a bit far-fetched to me, plus a great safety risk that they can avoid by using another metal as they claim they do in some cases.

 

[Anders Lindman]

We can use Occam's Razor and look at Einstein's messy concept of time and compare it with the idea that the past is in the now. Is it possible that all of the past is in the now? Absolutely. Is that a simpler description of time than Einstein's relativity? Yes. Is it compatible with quantum mechanics? Yes, definitely! To have the collapse of the quantum wavefunction always happening in the now fits very well with QM.

 

[Dave Rogers]

You missed the point. You seem to believe or posulate a lot for which you have no actual evidence. Does it bother you that your belief system seems unaffected by fact?

Jay, you're new round here, so you may not yet have noticed that Anders is one of our more... special posters. We think he's harmless, so mostly we just leave him to play. He seems quite happy with that.

Dave