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Do animals feel?

Bodhi Dharma Zen

Advaitin
Bodhi Dharma Zen
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
3,926
Do animals have emotions?

First of all, Im posting this in the religion and philosophy area because I believe those questions have been answered by religion (are still answered by religion). and this answer is simple believed to be true, just because. That said, here is what I think:

1) Evolution is correct.

2) We are animals.

3) We are continuous and homogeneous with the rest of nature (we are not "more different" from a cow than a horse is from a gorilla).

If we accept these premises we are forced to conclude, even without any "scientific proof" that animals do feel and have emotions like us.

Anything else, in my opinion, is being deluded by old religious beliefs in the "superiority of man" because "god create us to be like him, and so, we are obviously above animals".
 
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Tobias,

Well, yes, thats another discussion. In my case, I wont kill nor accept anyone to kill an animal just because I want to eat it. But, if the animal is already dead, I have no problems.

Still, in a better world, we would have the technology to make artificial food, the whole process, from sunlight to meat, would be done by technological means.
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
Do animals have emotions?

First of all, Im posting this in the religion and philosophy area because I believe those questions have been answered by religion (are still answered by religion). and this answer is simple believed to be true, just because. That said, here is what I think:

1) Evolution is correct.

2) We are animals.

3) We are continuous and homogeneous with the rest of nature (we are not "more different" from a cow than a horse is from a gorilla).

If we accept these premises we are forced to conclude, even without any "scientific proof" that animals do feel and have emotions like us.

...snip...
Click to expand...

Not quite we could have something unique - after all there are examples in nature of creatures having features that are quite unique. (I don't believe that but thought I should point it out.)
 
I recently read a book by Temple Grandin called Animals in Translation : Using the Mysteries of Autism to Decode Animal Behavior, and it makes a pretty good case for it. We're mammals, many mammals are also highly social - she mentions even cats are very social - and have a ton of similarities. Humans have a few second-order emotions, like shame, that probably no other mammal, even primates, can feel. Shame depends on a complex idea of self in relation to the social group. But basic ones like fear, sexual desire, love of family, anger, grief, and so forth can be seen in many animals... and have chemical bases that can be analyzed.
 
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I suppose the evolutionary stage of a species's frontal lobes would play an important role in the complexity of their emotions.
 
Assuming that "to feel" means a reaction to one or more external and/or internal (either from the past -data already present in the brain- or from the present, and also future -why not?) events...

I think animals do feel, but in some different ways, evolved to suit their needs. Sure, our "feelings" may quite well be just a side effect of some other evolutionary feature...

I also do think that the greater complexity of our "feelings" is quite possibly mainly due to the greater complexity of our brain. And interlinked with and a great part of what is called "consioussness". Possibly undistinguishable from it.

OK, I may have just commited the philosophycal blunder of the year. Please be nice, I'm an amateur pub philosopher...
 
I've read a lot of stuff on dogs that argues persuasively that they can't feel guilt, which is an emotion than many people ascribe to them. What people read as guilt in dogs is actually confusion or fear.

The training implication is that it's pointless to punish dogs after the fact. After a few minutes, they no longer associate any of their past actions with what is currently happening to them... they just don't have the mental equipment.

So let's say a dog poops in a corner. Its owner comes home an hour later, the dog runs up and greets the owner. The owner sees the poop, drags the dog over the corner and yells BAD DOG. The dog then looks guilty and tucks its tail between its legs. But the dog is really thinking "why am I being punished for greeting my owner? I am confused, unhappy and unsure of my proper social position." Also, the next time the dog wants to poop, it might go that corner and then think "I am punished when I go to this corner. Therefore I should not poop here. I will go and poop in that other corner."
 
Wikipedia has a pretty good article on this subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animals:

...on the one hand society recognizes animals can feel pain, by criminalizing animal cruelty, and yet on the other hand it is far from clear whether we truly believe animals "feel" in a meaningful sense. Often expressions of apparent pleasure are ambiguous as to whether this is emotion, or simply inate response, perhaps to approval or other hard-wired cues. The ambiguity is a source of much controversy in that there is no certainty which, if any views, are "right"
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-Bri
 
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Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
3) We are continuous and homogeneous with the rest of nature (we are not "more different" from a cow than a horse is from a gorilla).
Click to expand...

I don't get it. Are you claiming that since a gorilla can't do calculus, I can't do calculus?

You do realize that there are differences between animals, right?
 
My thoughts are that animals have their own set of emotions that resemble ours but are different. People have a tendency to anthropomorphize about animals and this can lead to various problems related to care of animals. People assume animals want the same things they do. This would not even hold true within our own species yet people still do that. People interpret animal behaviors by thinking about why they would do whatever their pet is doing and approach training from that aspect leading to misunderstandings and behavioral problems. A common one is my pet looks guilty therefor knows it shouldn't be doing whatever behavior it is doing . Animals are not humans.
 
Dogdoctor said:
My thoughts are that animals have their own set of emotions that resemble ours but are different. People have a tendency to anthropomorphize about animals and this can lead to various problems related to care of animals. People assume animals want the same things they do. This would not even hold true within our own species yet people still do that. People interpret animal behaviors by thinking about why they would do whatever their pet is doing and approach training from that aspect leading to misunderstandings and behavioral problems. A common one is my pet looks guilty therefor knows it shouldn't be doing whatever behavior it is doing . Animals are not humans.
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I agree with that. It also applies to people's approach between species. I'm the one cat owner in a family of dog owners, and my relatives get frustrated with my cat because they expect that he will behave and respond the same way a dog does.
 
strathmeyer said:
You do realize that there are differences between animals, right?
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Huh, dont need to post absurd questions. Lets see. Some animals have legs, and while they are very different they all accomplish the same function. Some are faster, some others can jump, but this is irrelevant.

Now, if the structures are the same, we can presume that the functions are the same. We have adapted in a different way (every animal adapts in a different way) but we all share common ancestors and our brain structures are similar.

True, even in brains there are adaptive specializations, but I do not need to enter in detail here.
 
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