"Diversity"

[DoubleStreamer]

Originally posted by DavidJames
Please read the attached link and draw your own conclusions.

No thanks. The comments I'm referring to were made about two posters, in this thread. Accusing someone of being racist calls for more than simply telling someone questioning that accusation to spend their time reading through some other thread to draw their own conclusions. If you're going to post such inflammatory stuff, you should be prepared to back it up yourself, and in the same thread where you posted it. If either of these posters actually is racist, it should be a simple matter for whoever is doing the accusing to find some direct quotes to back up their accusations, and post them here. If they cannot, they should apologize.

 

[DavidJames]

originally by DoubleStreamer
No thanks.

No problem, your choice.

The comments I'm referring to were made about two posters, in this thread.

Yes, I know. I provided a quote made by Patrick, along with a link to where it was made. I offered up some food for thought about what I saw. I don't have any information about the other poster.

Accusing someone of being racist calls for more than simply telling someone questioning that accusation to spend their time reading through some other thread to draw their own conclusions.

I didn't accuse anyone of being a racist, so this doesn't apply to me. But I did offer up some reading material. You elect to not follow it, that's fine, your choice. It seems common practice here to provide a quote and link to it's source.

if you're going to post such inflammatory stuff, you should be prepared to back it up yourself, and in the same thread where you posted it.

Again, I didn't post it, so this doesn't apply.

If either of these posters actually is racist, it should be a simple matter for whoever is doing the accusing to find some direct quotes to back up their accusations, and post them here. If they cannot, they should apologize.

Although I have my opinion on Patrick, I have not posted it in this tread. I have posted a direct quote and a link if someone would like to read further. I didn't think it prudent to quote over 12 pages.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

If being a certain color puts you ahead of others than there is no equl opportunity.

I agree. Now explain how diversity means that this kind of thing is happening or will happen or is even advocated.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Re: Re: Re: Oh please....


Nobody has said that diversity is racist.

Well then, what's the complaint?

 

[UserGoogol]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

If being a certain color puts you ahead of others than there is no equl opportunity.

Not really. Different people have different opportunities to get good credentials. Those with few opportunities for that purpose will have their resume be crappier than luckier people.

The theory is that black people have to work harder to get the same resume because of racism and stuff. Of course, it would be great if there was a less sketchy way to determine the opportunities that they had at their disposal.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

Now explain how diversity means that this kind of thing is happening or will happen or is even advocated.

Did I say it was?

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

Not really.

Umm yes. Getting preference because you are race X is the antithesis of equal opportunity.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

Umm yes. Getting preference because you are race X is the antithesis of equal opportunity.

You could look at it as giving race X the opportunity to perpetuate inequality to the other races. See, there's always a bright side!

 

[UserGoogol]

The job application proccess is not the only place where opportunity comes into play. There's unequal opportunities both before and after that time. Affirmative action is a (crude) attempt at having the entire system of opportunity be fair, instead of having equal opportunities for the event itself but ignoring prior lack of opportunity.

 

[Tmy]

A few months ago there was a study done where resumes with equal credentials were sent to compaines advertising jobs. Some of the resumes had names that were regarded as typical black names. The resumes will the black names had a much less call back rate than the ones with the "white names" even though the creditials were equal.

I think we had a thread about it here?

 

[Tony]

A few months ago there was a study done where resumes with equal credentials were sent to compaines advertising jobs. Some of the resumes had names that were regarded as typical black names. The resumes will the black names had a much less call back rate than the ones with the "white names" even though the creditials were equal.

I think we had a thread about it here?

I remember that. What's your point?

 

[TragicMonkey]

I remember that. What's your point?

That my job search should go better if I retitle my resume as "Chet Hartford Westchesterforth III"?

 

[Dancing David]

The short answer to this stream of buffoon babble is you are a moron. Tempted to leave it at that, but I will attempt a little education. If preference is given to race, it doesn't matter what else or how much else is given to "other things" - an admissions policy that gives race 50% weight is 50% (anti-white) racist, one that gives race 13.5% weight is 13.5% (anti-white) racist. An ethical, rational and constitutional society gives ZERO per cent to race.

And you still blithely ignore all the preferences given to factors other than race, I see your moron and I raise you to a palooka!

There are plenty of unfair advantages for rich people and people whose parents went to a scholl. And a scool that admits one hundred people on the basis of something other than race, and admits sevesnteen students on the basis of race, has what sort of problem.

Raising your grasp of that aspect above the dope level - the EPC applies just as well to "private" entities like the U of M for which the government is a substantial partner, with funding, grants, tax privileges, tax exempt status of donations, government facilities on campus, etc etc etc.

The equal protection clause still only applies to the government, institutions often devide how they recieve governement funds. The EPC still does not apply to private institutions, so that lowers you to the dumb bunny level..

So what compensations should be made to make a true meritocracy?

 

[Dancing David]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

Umm yes. Getting preference because you are race X is the antithesis of equal opportunity.

You are right no one should get any preference, so why did our president get into Yale, because his grandfather went there?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

You are right no one should get any preference, so why did our president get into Yale, because his grandfather went there?

Are you saying Bush's grandfather was black??

 

[Tmy]

I remember that. What's your point?

My point is that you just cant declare "OK everyone is equal now" and expcet the real world to follow suit. To combat the well hidden and ingrained systemic racism people have come up with plans such as affirmative action and whatnot. Sort of a fighting fire with fire.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

You are right no one should get any preference, so why did our president get into Yale, because his grandfather went there?

Putting words in my mouth in an attempt to make an irrelevant point? Very lame.

 

[DoubleStreamer]

Originally posted by DoubleStreamer
Accusing someone of being racist calls for more than simply telling someone questioning that accusation to spend their time reading through some other thread to draw their own conclusions.

Originally posted by DavidJames
I didn't accuse anyone of being a racist, so this doesn't apply to me.

I didn't accuse you of accusing anyone of being racist. My initial comments were in response to thaiboxerken, and my comments in response to your previous post were about his comments, not yours.

It seems common practice here to provide a quote and link to it's source.

Sounds good to me. But accusing someone of something like racism should be accompanied by a willingness to directly quote one or more statements by the accused that clearly prove the accusation. A link is fine for verifying that someone actually said what is being attributed to them, but one should not have to access it to find the incriminating statements in the first place. As a variation on the theme "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", it seems to me that damaging accusations require damaging evidence, and directing people to read through other conversations looking for that evidence does not qualify.

If you're going to post such inflammatory stuff, you should be prepared to back it up yourself, and in the same thread where you posted it.

Again, I didn't post it, so this doesn't apply.

And again, I was referring to thaiboxerken, not you.

I didn't think it prudent to quote over 12 pages.

My request was certainly in that spirit, since I only asked that he "cite at least one statement or passage" to back up his claims about each poster, nothing more.

 

[Tony]

My point is that you just cant declare "OK everyone is equal now" and expcet the real world to follow suit. To combat the well hidden and ingrained systemic racism people have come up with plans such as affirmative action and whatnot.

That's crap. Whether you like it or not names have cultural baggage that have nothing to do with racism. I'm sure a white kid with the name "Tyrone" would get the same reaction. Or an asian girl with the name "Shanaynay". Race is irrelevant, what is relevant is the image attached to these names. What do you think of when you hear the name Billy Bob? Adolf? Tim? Brittney? Juan? Each of these names have an image attached to them and each of them could be the name of anyone (gender aside) of any race. Ever hear the expression "You don't look like a (insert name here)"?

 

[Tmy]

That's crap. Whether you like it or not names have cultural baggage that have nothing to do with racism. I'm sure a white kid with the name "Tyrone" would get the same reaction. Or an asian girl with the name "Shanaynay". Race is irrelevant, what is relevant is the image attached to these names. What do you think of when you hear the name Billy Bob? Adolf? Tim? Brittney? Juan?

But the IMAGE of race is attached to the name. If gatekeeper sees "Shanaynay" and dumps the resume what do you think the image was. Of a black person. It MAY have been a white person, that doesnt change the fact that the resume was nixed cause of race.