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Diversity Day - Girl in Union Jack dress sent home

junkshop said:
British is not, and never has been, an ethnicity. No group, be it ethnic, societal or religious can honestly claim to be native to the British Isles.

The English aren't from England, the Scots aren't from Scotland, the British aren't from Britain, but anyone that makes their home in Britain (whether by accident or design) is British (IMO).
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I'm English and I am from England. I have friends who are Scottish and Welsh and they are very definitely from Scotland and Wales respectively.

My culture has nothing to do with the immigrants who came here fifteen hundred years ago. Their culture was very different from ours: I as an Englishman probably couldn't even understand their language. They didn't drink tea, play cricket or watch Morecambe and Wise. They certainly didn't expect The Spanish Inquisition or understand the reference.

I am native to the British Isles so are all the other British people who were born and/or were brought up here. People pay far too much attention to ancestry. It doesn't matter for the here and now.
 
Vixen said:
I mean, whilst it might be fun for Courtney now, who knows what trauma she might feel as an adult when it dawns on her her dad has used her for a political agenda, and her image has become a figure of far right notoriety.
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I don't think it will be fun for Courtney now. She's been on stage with a right wing thug in front of thousands of other right wing thugs (massive dereliction of duty that her parents allowed that to happen). Her school friends are probably going to give her some abuse for that.
 
I count myself fortunate for having been born in Sweden during an era when everything was supposed to only get better and better. That fact does not mean that I turn a blind eye to the less delightful, or even outright disgusting, aspects of this country. I'm very happy about being Swedish, since someone with my congenital disease would not have survived, much less thrived, in most other countries back in the dark ages when I was born, and parts of my country are, like the curate's egg, excellent. But patriotism to me seems to be about pride in your country, and that is not how I feel. Patriotism puzzles me.
 
jeremyp said:
I don't think it will be fun for Courtney now. She's been on stage with a right wing thug in front of thousands of other right wing thugs (massive dereliction of duty that her parents allowed that to happen). Her school friends are probably going to give her some abuse for that.
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To give credit to the national press, I understand only the DAILY MAIL gave her appearance with 'Tommy Robinson' any publicity; possibly the same hack who reported the initial 'story'.
 
SteveAitch said:
As put down in GK Chesterton's first book of essays, The Defendant (1901) from the chapter, “A Defence of Patriotism”:
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Pixel42 said:
"My country, right or wrong".

No.
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Mark Twain on that expression: "To be a patriot, one had to say, and keep on saying, 'Our country, right or wrong,' and urge on the little war. Have you not perceived that that phrase is an insult to the nation?".
 
steenkh said:
What purpose has "basic patriotism"? Isn't it just to create a "them" and "us" division? It has nothing to do with advancing democracy, human rights, or anything positive, but only to create loyalty to your own state, no matter what.


No, but if the extreme right takes it over, then it becomes a symbol for the extreme right, and your use of this symbol will be seen as support of the extreme right.

If people want to disengage the national flag from the extreme right, they'll need to use it themselves en masse. But that is difficult if you also do not want to distance yourself from other nations.

Take a sports game event. It is generally held that you should support the team from your own country, although I can't see why. In my opinion you could also support the team with the nicest players, or those who give the most memorable games. If you carry your national flag, you are not supposed to cheer when the opposing team does something really good. You are stuck with your own side.
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Yes, but its also expanded the group of that folks define as us to be much larger than say, folks who look like me and live in my village. Aside from that, its a thing that exists, and yes people have an irrational attachment to things like their country and less irrational attachment to their culture. Denigrating that will not generally convince them they are wrong, it will as Dub says, it will mostly just alienate them.

For better and mostly worse, humans are tribal, better off getting them to expand their notion of what counts as in their tribe rather than try and convince them their tribe is stupid.
 
Here is the point; This dislike of Patriotiem is very much a minority viewpoint. A pretty small minority, I suspect.
But it does make you feel superior to all those stupid Proles......
 
steenkh said:
What purpose has "basic patriotism"? Isn't it just to create a "them" and "us" division? It has nothing to do with advancing democracy, human rights, or anything positive, but only to create loyalty to your own state, no matter what.

No, but if the extreme right takes it over, then it becomes a symbol for the extreme right, and your use of this symbol will be seen as support of the extreme right.

If people want to disengage the national flag from the extreme right, they'll need to use it themselves en masse. But that is difficult if you also do not want to distance yourself from other nations.

Take a sports game event. It is generally held that you should support the team from your own country, although I can't see why. In my opinion you could also support the team with the nicest players, or those who give the most memorable games. If you carry your national flag, you are not supposed to cheer when the opposing team does something really good. You are stuck with your own side.
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You have a right to your opinion, but it is a minority opinion. Sorry, but nations are here to stay, and an idea of abolishing them in interest of some vague, cloudy worldwide government is pie in the sky.
Helen said:
I count myself fortunate for having been born in Sweden during an era when everything was supposed to only get better and better. That fact does not mean that I turn a blind eye to the less delightful, or even outright disgusting, aspects of this country. I'm very happy about being Swedish, since someone with my congenital disease would not have survived, much less thrived, in most other countries back in the dark ages when I was born, and parts of my country are, like the curate's egg, excellent. But patriotism to me seems to be about pride in your country, and that is not how I feel. Patriotism puzzles me.
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And lack of love for your country puzzles me.
Yes, every country had faults, but so do people.
 
In my experience flag shaggers tend to be people who have achieved nothing of any significance in their lives, but still need to feel superior to others. Being proud of having been born on a particular piece of the earth's crust, as if that was a personal achievement, enables them to feel superior to the guy next door who was born on a different piece, even if he's achieved ten times as much.
 
I love my country. This is mostly a case of familiarity. I know every street of my city, I know its history, the language most speak here is the one in which I can express myself best, and so on. I also feel lucky that my country is rich, and has – at least most of my life – values that I support.

I do not feel proud of my country. Well, I do feel pride when my vote in a teeny little way keeps the country on a more or less right track. I do not feel pride because some football team of eleven men that happen to be born more or less within the borders of my country win some big international prize. Well, I certainly understand why the team, and those that have trained them are proud. But why on earth should I feel proud of an achievement that I have contributed absolutely nothing to?

I hate my country when racists gain the upper hand in the policies of my country. And so on.

You can say I have mixed feelings towards my country. Mostly love, but rarely pride.
 
This Diversity Day issue isn't really about patriotism IMV, it was a means by which ethnic minority children had a chance to share their customs and cultures with the majority one. For example, here in Finland there has been a lot of recent Ukrainians, long-term Russians (who make up the vast bulk of Finland's immigrants), Somalians, Iraqis, Iranians, Saami, Swedes, Romani, and even some Brits! So a special Diversity Day for those kids I can see could be spoilt if some Basic Finn type turned up wrapped in a Finnish flag armed with an essay about how, 'Sometimes it feels like we hear too much about other cultures' rather defeats the whole point...?
 
junkshop said:
British is not, and never has been, an ethnicity.
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It is a culture however, and a unique one at that.

Where else in the world would you find people who eat pork pies, jellied eels, mushy peas or chips with gravy and swear they are all delicious.

And then there's spam. Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam!
 
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