Difference in Doctors

[Dr. Imago]

Interesting, this "allopathy" you mention. What is that exactly?

Allopathy, a term that has fallen out of favor and is even considered a pejorative by some, is still used to describe the traditional, western-based medical model. The 125 schools in the U.S. that grant the traditional "M.D.", or Doctor of Medicine, are described as "allopathic" schools. (Here's a search at the American Association of Medical Colleges website that will provide you a plethora of hits: http://www.aamc.org/search/query.html?qt=allopathic&col=allaamc )

In the U.S., both the allopthac (M.D.) and osteopathic (D.O.) degree are considered "graduate" degrees, at the end of which you are legally entitled to be called "doctor". This is different from the education models in other parts of the world, such as the UK, which offers a full baccalaureate degree in medicine (e.g., M.B.B.S.. M.B.Ch.B., etc.). These folks, if they come to the U.S., are called "doctor" as well, although in the UK they are often referred to as "Mister" or "Professor", unless they've gone on to additional graduate medical training and attained the title of doctor.

-TT

 

[Sarah-I]

ThirdTwin,

In the UK you can gain acceptance to medical school after A Levels and the course is 5 years long, plus the one year of house jobs (medicine and surgery) afterwards. After this doctors will have full registration with the GMC and can carry on to SHO and Registrar posts. This would be roughly equivalent to your Intern and Resident.

After completing an MBBS or MB BChir (Cambridge) or any medical degree, graduates are entitled to call themselves doctor. If a graduate goes onto train in surgery for instance, once they gain this qualification, then they will be called Mr, Mrs or Miss instead of doctor. Consultants are generally referred to as Mr rather than doctor and so are surgeons. Generally speaking however, SHO's, Registrars and Senior Registrars are referred to as doctor.

 

[Dr. Imago]

ThirdTwin,

In the UK you can gain acceptance to medical school after A Levels and the course is 5 years long, plus the one year of house jobs (medicine and surgery) afterwards. After this doctors will have full registration with the GMC and can carry on to SHO and Registrar posts. This would be roughly equivalent to your Intern and Resident.

After completing an MBBS or MB BChir (Cambridge) or any medical degree, graduates are entitled to call themselves doctor. If a graduate goes onto train in surgery for instance, once they gain this qualification, then they will be called Mr, Mrs or Miss instead of doctor. Consultants are generally referred to as Mr rather than doctor and so are surgeons. Generally speaking however, SHO's, Registrars and Senior Registrars are referred to as doctor.

Ah. Thanks for putting a finer point on it.



-TT

 

[davefoc]

I was surprised to see TT use the word allopathy the way he did. I have only seen it used as a kind of antonym for homeopathy. I still think that its most common useage is by homeopaths as a way of designating mainstream medical treatment but apparently the word does have some mainstream useage as evidenced by TT. Incidentally the word was coined by the founder of homeopathy.

Sarah-IL
Thank you for your response, I got it this time.

A question: In the US Chiropracty is still pretty much mired in quackery, but there is an element to Chiropracty that at least the author of quackwatch.com believes may be beneficial. This is the area of chiropracty dealing with therapeutic massage. Is this the kind of thing that a UK osteopath might be able to do or is a UK osteopath more likely to push dubious treatments and bogus theories in a way similar to many American chiropractors?

A second question: Does anybody have any thoughts on what constitutes therapeutic massage and how effective it is and what kinds ofl things it treats. I know that in US mainstream medicine there are workers that specialize in it.

 

[Dr. Imago]

I was surprised to see TT use the word allopathy the way he did. I have only seen it used as a kind of antonym for homeopathy. I still think that its most common useage is by homeopaths as a way of designating mainstream medical treatment but apparently the word does have some mainstream useage as evidenced by TT. Incidentally the word was coined by the founder of homeopathy.

Me an the AAMC are just trying to co-opt the word, and restore to it the proper respect it deserves (and this is what I also remembered the etymology of the word to be, much like you suggested), kind of like the hip-hoppers have done with the 'N' word.

In other words, I'm jes representin' fo my homeys! Werd.



-TT

 

[geni]

Me an the AAMC are just trying to co-opt the word, and restore to it the proper respect it deserves (and this is what I also remembered the etymology of the word to be, much like you suggested), kind of like the hip-hoppers have done with the 'N' word.

In other words, I'm jes representin' fo my homeys! Werd.



-TT

0 keyword hits on my uni libiary caterlog I'm sticking with it not being legit.

 

[Dr. Imago]

0 keyword hits on my uni libiary caterlog I'm sticking with it not being legit.

The word? It's legit. All kidding aside, I seriously meant that the word has been co-opted by the mainstream, western (at least in the U.S.) medical sytem to describe MD's. It's born more out of necessity as a "quick and dirty" way to make a distinction between those physicians in the U.S. pursuing an D.O. degree and an M.D. degree.

No joke. Search "allopathic" at PubMed. You'll get 441 hits.

-TT

 

[geni]

The word? It's legit. All kidding aside, I seriously meant that the word has been co-opted by the mainstream, western (at least in the U.S.) medical sytem to describe MD's. It's born more out of necessity as a "quick and dirty" way to make a distinction between those physicians in the U.S. pursuing an D.O. degree and an M.D. degree.

No joke. Search "allopathic" at PubMed. You'll get 441 hits.

-TT

Qi gives 1317

I suspose If you are difientating between MDs and DOs it is probably the most handy word avaible though.

 

[Zombified]

I looked up the etymology of the term 'allopathy' and apparently it was coined by Hahnemann. It was intended to express the difference between homeopathy and medicine according to Hahnemann's "theory", allo- signifying "other," as in using remedies that produce effects other than the symptoms.

So it is, in fact, a perjorative term from its very origin, and seems to be intentionally so.

 

[exarch]

What I don't get is why you would need a new word for medicine, since it's already called medicine, whereas the opposite, i.e. anything not medicine, would be called "quackery" (like homeopathy, chiropractics, accupuncture, ear candling, etc...).
Ostheopathy, as far as I can tell, is part medicine, part quackery. So why insist on calling it medicine when it clearly isn't all medicine. Why resort to calling medicine something else just so you could call ostheopathy "medicine"?

It seems like the osteopaths' race to gain acceptance from mainstream medicine has somehow "blemished" the good name of medicine, and changed it into "allopathy", while at the same time having some pseudoscience sneak it's way in on the back of what appears to be legitimate medicine. Very sad really ...

Also, Vaccination is "medicine", vaccination is therefor also "allopathy" according to your theory, yet vaccination is more "homeopathic" in the way it works. It makes no sense.

Just dump the homeopath's sneaky little insult and call medicine medicine and quackery quackery. Period.

 

[Dr. Imago]

It seems like the osteopaths' race to gain acceptance from mainstream medicine has somehow "blemished" the good name of medicine, and changed it into "allopathy", while at the same time having some pseudoscience sneak it's way in on the back of what appears to be legitimate medicine. Very sad really ...

Well, as I alluded to, this touches on a bigger, far more complex issue with the AMA, AAMC, COGME, and a few other "Medical Cartel" operators in the U.S. It's a huge, multi-headed hydra of an issue wrought with deep political and financial implications, prejudice, racism, bias, misinformation... it has all the makings for a great movie script! I'll try to begin to address this when I have a bit more time.

-TT

 

[Dr. Imago]

I'll try to begin to address this when I have a bit more time.

Something to get you ruminating, in the interim...

Think about why there are only about 16,500 U.S. "MD" graduates every year, yet there are roughly 22,500 residency spots. If you don't immediately understand the significance of that, I'll come back to that point as well. Suffice it to say, it is in the individual programs' best interest to fill as many of those spots as possible.

(No 'conspiracy theories' here either. A lot of this stuff is clearly and unequivocally stated, if you know where and what to look for.)

-TT

 

[yersinia29]

Something to get you ruminating, in the interim...

Think about why there are only about 16,500 U.S. "MD" graduates every year, yet there are roughly 22,500 residency spots. If you don't immediately understand the significance of that, I'll come back to that point as well. Suffice it to say, it is in the individual programs' best interest to fill as many of those spots as possible.

(No 'conspiracy theories' here either. A lot of this stuff is clearly and unequivocally stated, if you know where and what to look for.)

-TT

Thats becaues Medicare pays each residency slot something like 100k dollars per year. That results in positive cash flow for the hospital. Now, the attendings have to take time to teach students and that means they are not as effective as they would be if they were doing 100% clinical work. However, the bottom line is that hospitals make a lot of money off residency slots, and they are CERTAINLY better off with government funded residents than without.

Heck, every hospital in america would love to add 5,000 new residency slots if the ACGME would let them. There's plenty of foreigners lined up wanting to practice medicine in the states.

 

[Dr. Imago]

Thats becaues Medicare pays each residency slot something like 100k dollars per year. That results in positive cash flow for the hospital. Now, the attendings have to take time to teach students and that means they are not as effective as they would be if they were doing 100% clinical work. However, the bottom line is that hospitals make a lot of money off residency slots, and they are CERTAINLY better off with government funded residents than without.

Heck, every hospital in america would love to add 5,000 new residency slots if the ACGME would let them. There's plenty of foreigners lined up wanting to practice medicine in the states.

Excellent summation of Part 1 of my forthcoming dissertation.

But, now ask yourself while we're waiting, why does the government create those roughly 22,500 spots in the first place...

-TT

P.S. More to come soon... maybe this weekend.