Iacchus said:Actually, it's much more like giving birth, really.
Yet it's important to come to the point to where we don't know, otherwise our minds become osbscured with what we think we know.Which is to say, I don't have the knowledge base to reply from, as some people do and, that there's only so much to go around.
O.K. Enough is enough. Now I'm going to stop taking you seriously.
H'ethetheth
fishy rocket scientist
Yes, indeed I believe you were?Throg said:
Yeah, it's unfortunate that I'm not some big stockpile of information and anecdotes, but I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. Not to take anything away from Throg, because he seemed a bit more even-handed in his approach, but you can't build a case simply by amassing a pile of facts. That's not what moves the spirit. The spirit is moved simply by living in the moment, where we become aware of who we are as living beings, and reflect on what it means to be part of this living creation. This may seem a bit oversimplified, but it's not too far from what's necessary in order to achieve a state of spiritual awareness. In many ways it's like tuning in your mind and becomes a meditative state.Mercutio said:
Mercutio said:
It's not the days, it's the mileage (to paraphrase that great literary figure Indiana Jones.)
I've just come to the conclusion that what Iacchus has been saying amounts to:
"it is a tale told by an idiot, filled with sound and fury, signifying nothing".
If that is all he has to say then Mr. S said it better and more succinctly four hundred years ago.
Heh, Indiana Jones and William Sheakespeare in one post. Truly, I am a rennaissance man.
But that won't stop you from making claims of fact, will it?Iacchus said:
Yeah, those pesky facts get in the way of finding stuff out, don't they? I see that you have adopted the principle of ignoring them whenever they disagree with you. I think that is for the best.
You know this how? (note that you are making a claim of fact here--I think it only fair to ask you how you know it.)
You know this how? (Oh, and in return for Throg's patience with you, you might wish--since he is new--to give him your definitions for "spirit" and "moment", as well as any other words you are using in a different sense than the rest of us do.)
And you know this how?
Last I saw (but it has been a while since I paid close attention), you knew these things based on dreams and numerology. Your posts have been devoid of numerology over the past few months; have you given that up? You are very certain of your ideas (so certain you would not even consider the possibility that god might not exist!); is your certainty still such stuff as dreams are made on? To quote the great literary figure whose name escapes me at the moment, "dreamers often lie."
I have just born witness to what I know or, at least given you some indication, yet you refuse to listen. Am I to be held responsible for that? I am not God, I cannot provide all the answers. Yet if God exists, then surely He has His ways of making Himself known.
Iacchus said:
What you believe, not know. You believe it and I respect that just as I respect the countless billions who say they “know†something of the like. Why are they all wrong and you right?
Just as you do not listen to others who tell you what they believe is true, just as you refuse to listen when I/we ask that you offer any facts to support your belief.
Yes yes you preach and we refuse to listen. Shall I just believe everything everyone says just because they say it? Or are you special, the chosen one?
Well yes you would be. If you are here to save us to convert us to your truth you are not doing a good job and letting your God down.
We know as we can prove you exist.
One would be a great start.
“his†record is not so great as of yet. Seems an all knowing being could get a better PR man.
Geeze, is that what it takes to speak of such things?Pahansiri said:
God has either been here all along or He hasn't. So, is it important that God signs His name to all things? Or, maybe He does, but His signature is so small that we just can't see it?
Iacchus said:
Iacchus said:
Again answering a question with a question.
Please answer, it is a simple and honest question :
You believe it and I respect that just as I respect the countless billions who say they “know†something of the like. Why are they all wrong and you right?
No, Iacchus. We refuse to uncritically accept. We do listen. You can tell we listen, because people ask you reasonable questions about the things you say--questions which you then ignore.Iacchus said:
Perhaps not. Tell me, Iacchus: You have rejected a priori the possibility that god does not exist. Do you also reject the possibility that god exists but has no way of making himself known? (note, you can treat this as a simple yes or no question. If you wish to elaborate afterward, that is fine.)
Yeah, yeah, I know, you already know god exists and has made himself known to you...So, I guess one more question along those lines: Do you reject the possibility that you could have the same capacity to be mistaken as all other humans? (same deal--yes or no?)
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Iacchus said:
God (if He exists) obviously wants me to be an atheist. Even though He knows exactly what it would take to make me a believer, He hasn't done that. So He doesn't want me to believe in Him. QED.
Well, the way I found out was after the Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door, and I said to myself, "Well, based upon what these people are telling me who, refer to verse and chapter whenever I ask a question, and don't address the person standing there, me, there's no way I can accept God based upon their say-so. And, if God wants me to know who He is He's going to have to let me know personally (on a personal level), even if that meant being damned forever." And, it wasn't too long after that that it was made known to me. So ...arthwollipot said:
Iacchus said:
I very much respect that and of course have no way to know it is true or not true or have any need or desire to minimize it. You may be right.
May I ask, what would you say to the other billions of people who say they have had such experiences, ones that differ 108 degrees from yours?
Someone who says he was visited from a being from another universe that told him his race planted the seed of life here on earth using a cloning procedure.
Is he/she wrong? A nut case?
Again, I do not and can not judge what you say happened and you may very well be right, I only ask questions and test what i am told is truth I know you do the same.