Detox?

[SquishyDave]

Does anyone know anything about herbal pills that "detoxify" parts of our bodies. My mum has this whole kit with different pills to detox the liver, digestive system, kidneys, etc etc.

I am having trouble figuring out where these toxins are stored in the body, and how these pills clears them out, but then, I'm no scientition.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they're worthless crap your mom is wasting her money on.

The concept that you build up "bad stuff" and it adversely effects you is about as woo woo as karma or your chakra's being out of kilter.

If one wants to "detoxify" determine what substances you specifically wish to eliminate from your body then either stop consuming products with said substances in them (if you smoke, quit smoking) or consume products that actually reduce the amout of the substances (eat more oatmeal to reduce cholesterol).

 

[SquishyDave]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they're worthless crap your mom is wasting her money on.

The concept that you build up "bad stuff" and it adversely effects you is about as woo woo as karma or your chakra's being out of kilter.

If one wants to "detoxify" determine what substances you specifically wish to eliminate from your body then either stop consuming products with said substances in them (if you smoke, quit smoking) or consume products that actually reduce the amout of the substances (eat more oatmeal to reduce cholesterol).

I absolutely agree with you, but I was hoping for some links or some mediciney science type guy to explain to me how this is bollocks.

 

[Quasi]

I have seen this over and over. www.quackwatch.com has an excellent section on this regarding Naturopathy, its origins in the 1800's and how they thought "toxins" built up in the body were responsible for all diseases. This is where high colonics, fasting and other detox fads originated. If you are in the US, anyone can claim anything for a medical product as long as you do not write it on the container with the "medicine." With improved marketing technology, many snake oil salesmen are turning back to old scams such as detox, magnet therapy, homeopathy etc. Still doesn't work. Just ask them about what specific "toxins" they are referring to. I just get blank stares.

 

[Dr. Imago]

Does anyone know anything about herbal pills that "detoxify" parts of our bodies. My mum has this whole kit with different pills to detox the liver, digestive system, kidneys, etc etc.

I am having trouble figuring out where these toxins are stored in the body, and how these pills clears them out, but then, I'm no scientition.

Can you get a list of ingredients in these pills? That's the best place to start. It will depend on what types of "toxins" they intend to rid the body of. For example, if we are talking about a build-up of certain toxic metals (e.g., as a result of poisoning, etc.), then there are specific chelating agents available to help rid the body of these. But, these are (of course) not sold over-the-counter.

-TT

 

[SquishyDave]

Re: Re: Detox?

Can you get a list of ingredients in these pills? That's the best place to start. It will depend on what types of "toxins" they intend to rid the body of. For example, if we are talking about a build-up of certain toxic metals (e.g., as a result of poisoning, etc.), then there are specific chelating agents available to help rid the body of these. But, these are (of course) not sold over-the-counter.

-TT

These are over the counter herbal pills, I looked closely at the boxes and in the very bottom corner is written "supplement" or some such. I read what was in them but there are four different bottles, all just full of different plants. One is to detox the liver, one is for the kidneys, one is for the digestionive tract, and I can't remember the fourth one. I am visiting home tonight for my usual dinner with my parents, so I will grab all the bottles so I have the full info.

My mum isn't taking them as they were given free to her by my uncle, her brother, and she thinks they made her sick when she took some. But it could just be that cause and effect link we humans are so good and making, and she got sick from something else.

 

[BTox]

Just pills to detox the body? Usually the protocol is more substantial, involving enemas to "detox" the colon and drinking glasses of olive oil to "detox" the liver. Amazing how many people fall for such nonsense.

 

[SquishyDave]

Just pills to detox the body? Usually the protocol is more substantial, involving enemas to "detox" the colon and drinking glasses of olive oil to "detox" the liver. Amazing how many people fall for such nonsense.

Well that's all part of it isn't it? If you say I need to stick coffee up your arse to detox you, you get people, but less people than if you say, just take this simple pill.

But there are four pills, you need to take a course of, so it aint too simple, it has to be a bit tricky to have any worth, surely.

 

[TruthSeeker]

This may seem as woo-woo as detoxing but here's my take on this:

I think many people are drawn to this thinking because they feel badly about themselves. So it is easy to believe they are full of "toxins" when probably really they are full of emotional baggage and damage. They feel "dirty"

Take the pills, have the enema (whatever) and you get to be "clean" without considering any of the emotional stuff.

Just a thought.

 

[Dr. Imago]

This may seem as woo-woo as detoxing but here's my take on this:

I think many people are drawn to this thinking because they feel badly about themselves. So it is easy to believe they are full of "toxins" when probably really they are full of emotional baggage and damage. They feel "dirty"

Take the pills, have the enema (whatever) and you get to be "clean" without considering any of the emotional stuff.

Just a thought.

Interesting psychosocial twist...

-----------

To the issue at hand, it sounds like (if they are indeed just herbal pills) that the only thing she's cleaning out is her pocketbook. The body is an amazing system capable of riding itself of most "toxins" all it's own. I'd only be concerned for your mom if any of the following criteria, but not limited to, are met:

1) She is spending a lot of money on this stuff and it is posing an financial hardship on her,

2) She is taking anyone of the herbs (such as St. John's Wort) that could potentially interfere with metabolism of other medications she may be taking in her body (for that, we'd need a list of what's in these things as well as what legitimate drugs she's on to see what potential interactions there may be... best bet is to get her to tell her real doctor about these pills so he/she is aware of potential interactions),

3) That she has some other serious, undiagnosed disease that has necessitated her to try these pills - this is the potentially most dangerous one because she may be delaying appropriate medical care for a condition that could become worse with time.

Aside from that, you're unlikely to convince people that what they are doing is unnecessary or even bad for them after they've convinced themselves that, for whatever reason (placebo effect or not), they feel better after taking such concoctions.

Nonetheless, try to get the list of what's in these things so we can at least point you to some online references of potential interactions, etc. In the meantime, best of luck to you in trying to convince her that the only things she's definitely accomplishing right now is making very expensive urine and poo.

-TT

 

[SquishyDave]

OK, I've got the info. Now if anyone knows where I can check the safety of these "herbs" I can look em up myself, but if anyone is interested the product is called Quick Cleanse and is made by a company called "Totally Natural Products" an aussie company, www.totallynatural.com.au

It is a 15 day "ultimate internal cleansing detox program" and boasts "Quick Cleanse works like an INTESTINAL BROOM flushing your body of harmful wastes, worms and impurities FAST!" Emphasise and capitalisation theirs if you can believe it.

This particular pack contains four sets of pills clearly labeled 1 to 4.

1 is "stomach clear" an "....exceptional herbal formula designed to stimulate digestion, aid in the relief of constipation, indigestion, heartburn, and gastrointestinal distubances." The description continues on for far too long.

2 is "liver clear" an "...exceptional herbal liver tonic which contains lipotropic factors designed to assist with the distribution and metabolism of fats in the digestive system and helps to burn them up." Wasn't this liver clear? It talks later about the gut system too. Oh well.

3 is "bowel clear" an "exceptional herbal formula designed to relieve constipation and clear your large bowel of unwanted waste and digested food fast." Hmmmmm

4 is "intestinal clear" and for a change "...combines a special blend of 4 natural ingrediants providing your body with 3g of soluble fibre daily." It then goes on to say the multi fibres are finely ground and packed into a coated tablet for easy "assimilation". Fairly, as the french say, borgesque if you ask me

Now while on these pills you must follow a strict diet, please keep in mind you take 2 stomach clears a day, 2 livers a day, 2 bowels a day and 4 intestinals a day, but spread out over the day. Now for the ingredients (take a breath guys)

Stomach clear contains.
carica papaya fruit powder.............................................250mg
plantago afra seed husk dry powder...............................100mg
mentha X piperita ext. equiv. dry leaf...............................50mg
standardised zingiber officinalis ext. equiv. dry rhizome...100mg
equiv. gingerolis (6) 1mg
foeniculum vulgare ext. equiv. dry fruit.............................100mg
ulmus rubra inner stem bark powder................................100mg
gentiana lutea ext. equiv. dry root...................................100mg
bioflavonoids...................................................................50mg
magnesium chloride equiv. to 1.2mg magnesium..............10mg
cynara scolymus ext. equiv. fresh leaf...............................100mg
juglans nigra fruit hull powder...........................................100mg
uncaria tomentosa est. equiv. dry bark.............................100mg
clove powder....................................................................50mg
equiv. clove oil ess. ..........................................................6mg

Liver clear contains
inositol..............................................................................250mg
taurine................................................................................150mg
choline bitartrate.................................................................250mg
standardised silybum marianum ext. equiv. dry fruit (3.5g).......3.5g
equiv. flavanolignans calculated as silybin 42mg
bupleurum falcatum ext. equiv dry root...............................250mg
berberis vulgaris ext. equiv. dry root...................................250mg
standardised angelica polymorpha ext. equiv. dry root.........250mg
equiv. ferulic acid 35.7 microgram
taraxacum officinale ext. equiv. dry root...............................500mg
schizandra chinensis ext. equiv. dry fruit..............................250mg

Bowel clear contains
standardised rhamus purshianus ext. equiv. dry bark (cascara)..500mg
equiv. hydroxyanthracene derivatives calc. as cascaroside A....13.69mg
hydrastis canadensis ext. equiv. to dry root (golden seal).........150mg
juglans nigra fruit hull dry powder (black walnut).......................350mg
rheum palmatum ext. equiv. dry root (rhubarb).........................200mg
inula britannica ext. equiv. dry flower (elecampane).................100mg
artemisia annua ext. equiv. dry leaf (wormwood).....................100mg
salvia officinalis ext. equiv. dry leaf (sage)...............................500mg

intestinal clear contains
inulin equiv. to fibre 325.68mg.........................................354mg
guar gum equiv. to fibre 100mg........................................125mg
pectin equiv. to fibre 75mg................................................125mg
ulmus rubra stem bark inner dry powder............................75mg

 

[reprise]

For those who don't know the background, the various "cleansing diets" and the supplements they entail were pretty much the exclusive domain of naturopaths and herbalists until a doctor with a regular spot on television started promoting the idea of liver cleansing being an essential part of good health. It kind of snowballed from there.

Sandra Cabot has a lot to answer for IMHO

Dave, the particular tablets your mother is buying are advertised in the TV guide of the Sunday paper each week - tell her I've got a bridge for sale.

 

[SquishyDave]

Dave, the particular tablets your mother is buying are advertised in the TV guide of the Sunday paper each week - tell her I've got a bridge for sale.

It's an uphill battle, it doesn't help that my uncle couldn't think more highly of herbal remedies. Luckily niether forsake the evil institution of modern medicine when it matters, but I am trying to save them both some money. It's hard.

 

[reprise]

Dave, I would actually swear by the herbalist my partner used for a couple of years - it's the "self-prescribing" which concerns me most. Just because your mum can order all things herbal through the Sunday TV Guide doesn't mean it's a good idea for her to do so. However, it sounds like you family are pretty sensible about consulting a doctor when they need to do so and that the major risk they're running is wasting money - we all have our favourite way of doing that.

The only thing I'd point out to the family is that some herbal products can interact with OTC and prescription medications and that they should check with their doctor (or at the very least their pharmacist) about possible contraindications or interactions if they are taking any medications on a regular basis.

I was a bit surprised to see wormwood listed as an ingredient, maybe you're mum's planning to set up a still and brew her own absinthe.

 

[SquishyDave]

I will certainly be pushing the interferring with other medicines angle, what freaks me out a bit is the sheer number of active ingredients in these pills. They can't know what the all the consequences of this many things together can be, probably harmless but still I aint shoving that stuff in me.

Another interesting thing to note is the presence of rhubarb root in the bowel clear, I understand rhubarb root makes you look at people with dysentery with envy.

 

[EvilYeti]

Now while on these pills you must follow a strict diet, please keep in mind you take 2 stomach clears a day, 2 livers a day, 2 bowels a day and 4 intestinals a day, but spread out over the day. Now for the ingredients (take a breath guys)

Most of the herbs I could recognize have some some mild medicinal effects, but I'm not sure "cleansing" would be always be the correct description.

Some of them, like the intestinal clear formula, is mostly different forms of fiber. Any other fiber would work just as well and could probably be much cheaper.

The other problem is that most of the dosages seem too low to have much of an effect unless they are extracts, dried herbs aren't very potent as a rule.

You can look up the effects of some of the herbs
here

 

[Dr. Imago]

OK, I've got the info.

Youch! I asked for it, didn't I?

I agree with what others have said, especially about the "colon cleansing" stuff. A good bran muffin will likely do the same as this pill, will taste better, and is probably a lot cheaper.

As far as the other specific compounds, I highly suggest that you do a search to see what interactions they may have. For example, I'm always a bit concerned when I hear about supposed liver tonics because there may be compounds in them that cause interference with the clearance of other drugs. Furthermore, some of these herbs may also bind to proteins within the plasma and displace other drugs that the person may be taking, in effect, increasing their potency. Personally, I would never advocate such herbs to anyone if they are on an oral blood thinner called "Coumadin" or certain other antibiotics (among many other drugs too numerous to name).

Bottom line: most of this stuff is not formally studied and it may be impossible at this point to know exactly what the effects are. And, without such data, you are essentially taking someone else's word for it. That someone else is, trust me, more concerned about separating you from your money than they are ultimately about your health.

Just my thoughts.

-TT

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

I would advise you to listen to Third Twin as he seems to have a knowledge of medicine.

The bottom line is the best you can expect from these concoctions is a short lasting benign effect. To provide any efficacy to the body I.E. Instead of taking herbals of dubious quality for intestinal cleaning, eat oatmeal (or bran ) and enjoy a glass of orange juice ( with pulp ) for breakfast. You cannot take a pill to correct a bad diet and poor exercise habits, there are NO short cuts.

The worst you can expect is more problematic.....

What most people don't know is that the OTC herbals are ineffective due to unqualified or anecdotal research, so a bottle of melatonin from wal-mart won't kill you BUT, there are herbals that are of the Chinese formulary that can. These drugs can be detrimental to your health even deadly. One popular supplement for liver toxicity contains licorice root .. not the "herbal type" the Chinese pharmaceutical. Quality verity. For people who have liver disease ( alcoholism, hep b) this substance puts more demand on the kidneys and in liver malfunction there is a heavy load already , so if the kidneys are pressured too far the patient will suffer (die?)

So at best you lose $10 at worst , your life.
Run 2 miles and call me in the morning.

 

[SquishyDave]

ThirdTwin You sure did ask for it, but I value your input.

TillEulenspiegel Oh I always listen to ThirdTwin, he's dreamy

Actually re-reading the pamphlet that comes with it, I am getting really angry. They have a plain english version of the ingredients I just found, turns out most the pills consist of food. The stomach clear for instance contains paw paw, peppermint, ginger, fennel, artichoke and cloves.

But leaving aside the staggering number of drugs/herbs/food these pills contain, what is the basis for "detoxing" I really couldn't figure out how these toxins are stored in the body, and using my own internal logic, and what little information I have gleaned about biology, toxins are either pretty quickly removed from your system by your bodies natural process, and those that can't be removed by your body, well I couldn't figure out where things like mercury build up, or if there are poisons that build up and where they get stuck.

Also if there are toxins that build up, and properly tested drugs can remove them, how does this work?

If anyone wanted to help with this I would appreciate it.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I absolutely agree with you, but I was hoping for some links or some mediciney science type guy to explain to me how this is bollocks.

http://www.quackwatch.org (health fraud and quackery)
http://www.chirobase.org (guide to chiropractic)
http://www.dentalwatch.org (guide to dental care)
http://www.homeowatch.org (guide to homeopathy)
http://www.ihealthpilot.org (under construction)
http://www.mlmwatch.org (multi-level marketing)
http://www.naturowatch.org (naturopathy) -- under construction
http://www.nutriwatch.org (nutrition facts and fallacies)
http://www.ncahf.org (National Council Against Health Fraud)
http://www.chsourcebook.com (consumer health sourcebook)