Democrats = Antifa = BS

baron said:
There are no good Antifa, just like there are no good Nazis (apart from dead ones, in both cases). Again, I stress I'm not an expert on US politics, but I don't see many conservatives balaclava'd up roaming the country doling out violence and intimidation to people whose speech they disagree with.
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Yea it isn't like those nice proud boys who the police like so much they never bother to arrest them when the set up sniper nests or beat up the scum of the earth. But then the ANTIFA publish videos of it and suddenly these fine young men get their lives ruined for no reason.
 
baron said:
So now you're going to give a few examples of the 'good' people in this officially terrorist organisation...

...or maybe you're not.
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Officially terrorist? You must be joking.

Have you ever talked to a member of Antifa?

You're the one making the claim that they are all evil scum. How about you show some backbone and support that claim?
 
Antifa is a terrorist Organization.
If you think it isn't, you don't know what Terrorism means.
 
Belz... said:
No argument there. It does, however, seem irrelevant to what I said.
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It's entirely relevant. Conservatives reasonably assume that if you claim to be anti-fascist, you probably mean anti-conservative. There's nothing "telling" about that, unless it's telling you that progressives conflate conservatism with fascism to excuse their political violence. Something you weren't arguing with a moment ago, but will probably start arguing with now.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The reason is the 2nd Unite the Right in Washington ...
... which showed the GOP that their extremists are a tiny minority of scared teenagers who need police protection from the vastly larger number of counter-protesters: it is the starkest proof that right-wingers don't have a silent majority behind them, progressives do.

So in order for militant far-right groups not to get beaten up wherever they show, police and the public have to be primed to see Antifa as the enemy, in effect recruiting the police to Team Nazi.
This is 100% the Goebbels handbook, and we know from communications from US Nazi groups that they are following it.
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I'd argue that US police are naturally inclined to see fascists and white supremacists as okay regardless, and thus need little priming. THis is why they stood around in Ferguson until someone plowed their car into a crowd.

Compare to Ferguson and Baltimore, where police forces simply attacked large groups of area residents and high schoolers, respectively. They can show up in the hundreds or thousands with riot gear, military surplus, and the like when they want to.

ETA: Still no link between Antifa and any notable Democrat, though.
 
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No, anti-facist doesn't mean anti-conservative.
If you uphold democracy, Antifa has no beef with you.
But plenty Republicans support voter suppression aimed at minorities, which is explicitly anti-democratic.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Antifa isn't a terrorist Organization.
If you think it is, you don't know what Terrorism means.
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Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror among masses of people; or fear to achieve a financial, political, religious or ideological aim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism​
Antifa uses violence to intimidate and suppress political dissent.

I'm not sure how you can have a meaningful definition of terrorism that excludes Antifa. Go go right ahead and try to come up with one if you want. But why bother? The topic of the thread is disassociating mainstream progressives from the violent ones. I can totally understand not wanting to be associated with terrorists. But if you don't even believe they're terrorists... There's a lot of conflicted responses in this thread. On the one hand, there's the "those guys are bad and they're not with us". On the other hand, there's the "those guys aren't really that bad".

So which is it gonna be for you, TGZ? Antifa don't represent mainstream progressive values and tactics? Or... they kinda do?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
No, anti-facist doesn't mean anti-conservative.
If you uphold democracy, Antifa has no beef with you.
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Explain that to downtown Berkeley. Explain that to downtown Portland.

But plenty Republicans support voter suppression aimed at minorities, which is explicitly anti-democratic.
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I'm sure plenty do.

I'm also sure that you can't name more than a handful of them.

I'm also sure you can't name any of them that have been the target of Antifa violence for that reason.

I'm also sure you can't actually excuse political violence on the basis of supporting "voter suppression aimed at minorities", even though you're trying to make it look like you can.
 
theprestige said:
Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror among masses of people; or fear to achieve a financial, political, religious or ideological aim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism​
Antifa uses violence to intimidate and suppress political dissent. I'm not sure how you can have a meaningful definition of terrorism that excludes Antifa. Go go right ahead and try to come up with one if you want. But why bother? The topic of the thread is disassociating mainstream progressives from the violent ones. I can totally understand not wanting to be associated with terrorists. But if you don't even believe they're terrorists... There's a lot of conflicted responses in this thread. On the one hand, there's the "those guys are bad and they're not with us". On the other hand, there's the "those guys aren't really that bad".

So which is it gonna be for you, TGZ? Antifa don't represent mainstream progressive values and tactics? Or... they kinda do?
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Support this claim.

Otherwise it looks like you are saying that fascists, proud boys, and Nazis are expressing political dissent when they show up with bats, stomp protesters, and drive into crowds.
 
Belz... said:
Beautiful.

Typo aside, could you explain why it's a terrorist organisation? And bear in mind, that standard will be applied to other groups as well.
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Maybe you'll consider reading the article I linked to that explains it?
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yea it isn't like those nice proud boys who the police like so much they never bother to arrest them when the set up sniper nests or beat up the scum of the earth. But then the ANTIFA publish videos of it and suddenly these fine young men get their lives ruined for no reason.
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Two gangs of thugs fighting each other. Do these Proud Boys attempt to silence free speech? If so, they're fascists too. Are they officially named as a terrorist organisation? If so, then they're terrorists as well. What has this to do with the point I made?
 
theprestige said:
It's entirely relevant. Conservatives reasonably assume that if you claim to be anti-fascist, you probably mean anti-conservative. There's nothing "telling" about that
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If you say "I'm anti-stupid" and I think, absent further information, that you mean "Anti-Belz...", then I probably think I'm stupid.

So why would conservatives assume anti-fascism means anti-them?
 
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