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Debunking the Exodus Code

King of the Americas

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So, I saw this History Channel special last night featuring scientific explainations for ALL of the events that occured in the Bible's Exodus.

I found all of the explainations 'plausible', but was left feeling pissed at God.

The story teller went through great efforts to note how there was nothing supernatural about the events that occured, but rather 'God' simply manipulated nature to arrive at a favorable outcome.

My question for God is why? I mean, why didn't he show up with helping hands for last's year's tsunami victums, or those who died after Katrina hit, or how about during the Holocost???

God told Moses which plagues were on the way, so that Moses could pass along the threat to the Pharo, so I guess we need to find someone who talks 'God' or at least someone who can rebuild a God-radio/Ark of the Covenant.

In any case, I thought the program was very well researched. They managed to find the Exodus story, as told in the Bible, written in Egyptian papyrus, and engraved on some stone something or other in yet another language.

The conclusion was the the story of the Exodus was based on FACTS, that can be proven and even recreated, although not easily.

Any other thoughts?
 
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Saw it last night too. The thought I had on my way in to work this morning was that it would require too much work to debunk.

But here are a few things that seriously bothered me about the show (at least the parts I saw, since I didn't see it all).

Santorini is not close enough to Avaris to account for fire and hail storms in northern Egypt. I'm sorry, but that is just completely implausible. Maybe on Crete, but I think that is even stretching it a bit. I missed all the other "plagues" so can't comment.

The tomb with all the dead guys has been known about for a long time. They have arrow marks and other evidence of violent death from battle. They were not killed by the hand of God or by CO2 creeping in to dispatch them at night.

The Hyksos, from what we know of them would have been Baal worshipers. They seemed to worship Seth or something like Seth -- much closer to Baal than Yahweh. Perhaps Moses created a new cult of Yahweh worshippers, though.

I am fairly skeptical of the claim that Ahmose means brother of Moses. The name Moses is an Egyptian cognate itself referring to one's relationship to one of the gods.

I would like to know when that stela with the "parting rivers" was made and what it really says. He concentrated so much on this one pictogram and ignored all the rest. This leads me to believe that he is constructing a story about something that tells a completely different tale.
 
Wait a second, wouldn't that depend on the nature of the eruption, and the speed and direction of the upper atmosphere wind currents?

Within the documentary they stated that they FOUND Santorini ash IN the Nile Delta...

The first plague was that all the waters turned blood read, which occured because this earthquake/eruption disturbed an iron oxycide somewhere (I forget where exactly). The next plague was frogs, because all the water had become un-inhabitatable, so it was without a lot of fresh water to be had, flies & lice were next.

The most remarkable explaination was the one given for the death of all the first born males...

All those children were given special places in the home, first born males supposedly sleep on a low bed near the front of the home, whil other children slept in bunk beds or the roof. CO2 being a heavy gas, and a dealy one, first born males were in a bad place at the wrong time.

I thought that he presented the same story in three different languages, in three different forms, all dating from the same time period, was the strongest evidence for Exodus being based in fact.
 
King of the Americas said:
Wait a second, wouldn't that depend on the nature of the eruption, and the speed and direction of the upper atmosphere wind currents?

Within the documentary they stated that they FOUND Santorini ash IN the Nile Delta...
Click to expand...

Ash. Not Fire and Ice falling from the sky. Ash can disperse over a very wide area.
 
Fire & ice HAVE fallen to earth after a volcanic erruption collides with a severe hailstorm.

Such a thing isn't impossible...
 
I'm just questioning the distances involved. I have no problem with ash falling that far away. I bet the ash ws distributed further afield than Avaris, but anything big enough to result in fire falling from the sky? From Santorini to Avaris? I think that is stretching it, though if someone could work out the physics involved I could be persuaded otherwise.

About the death of the first born, I thought that was an ingeneous explanation, but the thought occurred to me....where did the mammas and pappas sleep? Is it true that every class of Egyptian had everyone but the firstborn sleep on the roof? I don't know enough about early Egyptian social life to be sure one way or another, but that seems a bit odd to me. I also have a hard time believing that anyone but the aristocracy had such beds. All the peasants shared this custom?
 
King of the Americas said:
So, I saw this History Channel special last night featuring scientific explainations for ALL of the events that occured in the Bible's Exodus.

I found all of the explainations 'plausible', but was left feeling pissed at God.

The story teller went through great efforts to note how there was nothing supernatural about the events that occured, but rather 'God' simply manipulated nature to arrive at a favorable outcome.

My question for God is why? I mean, why didn't he show up with helping hands for last's year's tsunami victums, or those who died after Katrina hit, or how about during the Holocost???

God told Moses which plagues were on the way, so that Moses could pass along the threat to the Pharo, so I guess we need to find someone who talks 'God' or at least someone who can rebuild a God-radio/Ark of the Covenant.

Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...
I went through my "mad at God" phase during my twenties.

Then I got over it.

Are you ever going to?

DR
 
Really want to know about stuff like this, pick up either of these two books by George E Mendenhall
The Tenth Generation or for a really good reference bood Ancient Israel's Faith and History There are lots of other great ones out there, but Mendenhall's treatment of this is probably some of the best. As for Ba'al Worship I would suggest Alberto R. W. Green The Storm God in the Ancient Near East

Final Verdict, The Exodus as it happened in the bible may reflect some sort of major event, but likely not as it was in the bible. many of the plagues probably reflect disparate traditions etc. Wandering for forty years probably reflects and Egyptian occupation of Syria/Palestine, which colapesed and then allowed enterance, it certainly did not take that long to cross, as it can now be done by bus in an afternoon.
 
Here's my take on Exodus:

The Jews were never slaves in Israel. And there were no 12 plagues. And if some Jews were there, eventually they left.

The end.

PS Moses looked exactly like Charleton Heston. Who'd a thunk it?
 
King of the Americas said:
The story teller went through great efforts to note how there was nothing supernatural about the events that occured, but rather 'God' simply manipulated nature to arrive at a favorable outcome.
Click to expand...

Surely the converse is more plausible.

The Old Testament seems to have its fair share of natural disasters, which provide retrospective evidence of supernatural wrath.

Any (caldera forming) eruption would surely have made it into the local myths.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060823-thera-volcano.html

Especially as 60 cubic km is a lot of ash to go somewhere.

ETA:

IIRC, Krakatoa was about 20 km 3, and mount St Helens 5km3
 
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ON 'Egyptian papyrus' was written IN Egyptian, about the 12 plagues, AND the guy who warned the Pharo about their coming. The Pharo calls him the "Prince of the Desert", while he referred to the Israelies as "The Evil Ones".

---

To D.R.:

I don't mean to suggest that I don't believe in 'some' god (notice the lower case) who resides in heaven (inner or outer space), who has at times in history interacted with and or manipulated man or his environment.

I arrived at this conclusion after reading manuscripts, ancient texts, and even listening to eye witness accounts, from people all over the world from varying times. There is 'something' up there...what exactly, I am not sure.

I guess I am not really 'mad' at god. It just isn't something I'd worship.

Too inconsistant and or absent from those in sincere need, these days...

Now, IF he/she/it were to show up in Iraq, and suddenly disable ALL firearms, planes, tanks, and bombs from operating, and proclaim in a loud booming voice, "Cut that ***** out, those who live by the sword WILL die by the sword!" Then he vaporized all the violent f*ckers, I might rethink my stance.

IF there is an omni-potent, omni-present, super-duper, capital letter GOD is deserving of a pink slip, in my opinion.
 
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I haven't read much of this, but there is a website where someone has tried to examine all the issues critically. I read most of part six which covers one of the issues I mentioned above regarding the distances that the volcanic pumice would have needed to travel to cause the fire storm: Exodus Code

I'm less sure about the stela that supposedly shows the ten plagues. I thought there was a stela that mentioned some of the information and that could very well be due to experience of the Santorini volcano. But that really cannot be used as evidence for the Exodus narrative, unless everything is completely linked together, which I still think is unlikely.
 
Oh, yeah, I remember now. He referred to the Tempest stela, which describes a great storm -- something very unusual for Egypt. That could easily be the result of the explosion on Santorini. But was there mention of a papyrus that described all of the Ten Plagues? I must have missed that part.

And couldn't the tempest stela be metaphorical?
 
I located some more info. The reference with the water and knives is from the el-Arish inscription, which is from the Ptolemaic period and is actually a story about Shu, Geb, and Ra. There is no mention of Moses by name or even by implication. The other references he used were actually to a great chief of the plain and a prince of the hill -- there is no reference to the prince of the desert. Both references are apparently about gods, not about humans.

The papyrus that supposed refers to the plague of hail is the Admonitions of Ipuwer. Unfortunately nowhere does this papyrus mention that both fire and ice or fire and hail fell from the sky. The dating of the papyrus is also suspect, but it fairly clearly seems to predate the time period needed by this scenario by hundreds of years. And the reference to the rivers becoming bloody, in context, actually refers to people going to drink water and being eaten by crocodiles.

I had also overlooked a few other very sticky issues, such as the fire and ice falling everywhere in Egypt but the land of Goshen. And the tenth plague was to kill the firstborn of the Egyptians all over Egypt (again not only in the land of Goshen) including the firstborn of cattle, etc. There is no way that CO2 covered all of Egypt and spared all the livestock except the firstborn. It also appears that class distinctions were the most important feature for beds, not being the firstborn male.

In other words, he pulled all kinds of stuff out of context and made up a story about it.
 
thaiboxerken said:
I went through my "god is real" phase during the first 17 years of my life. Then I got over it. Are you ever going to?
Click to expand...
If you live long enough to get my mileage, we can talk on that point of life, and world view. Until then, I don't see this conversation going much further.

Do you?

DR
 
ON 'Egyptian papyrus' was written IN Egyptian, about the 12 plagues, AND the guy who warned the Pharo about their coming. The Pharo calls him the "Prince of the Desert", while he referred to the Israelis as "The Evil Ones".

Could someone point me i the direction of where this is confirmed, that such a comment exists. ( i don't mean for that to come over rude).

I have been under the impression that there was no direct evidence of moses and the Israelites in Egypt other then in the OT.
 
I can only reference the show, and the host.

He presented as though it were an actual object, the papyrus in Egyptian writing.

I don't know, it COULD have been a recreation or just a computer animation, but he presented it as 'fact' not opinion...

Facts can be disproven, if you feel oblgiated, please do so:

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&showId=180013

I am not arguing the validity of the production.
 
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