Debate! What debate?

[Crazy Chainsaw]

fire is hot

heat weakens steel

gravity

DA.
I just straitened a 6 inch by 4 inch peace of solid steel, Then heat treated it.
Got to remember not to bend it again.
Your not talking to a Cter here far from it!
I bent it by dropping a small rock, about a 3 or 4 tons, and it did fall at free fall speeds, maybe that could be a new Conspiracy?
Do you know where I can find a slightly used hydraulic press oh about 50-70 tons?

 

[The Almond]

Yes but what happens when you add to much Gypsum like in light weight concrete?
Or when you expose the concrete to continuous sulfur bombardment?

http://asae.frymulti.com/abstract.asp?aid=16796&t=2

http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/cbd/cbd136_e.html

http://www.understanding-cement.com/sulfate.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=522058

Adding too much gypsum gives you the condition of "false set" wherein the ettringite stiffens the concrete. You also get this condition if you use anhydrous gypsum, the water causes the gypsum to rehydrate and stiffens the concrete mixture. The end result is that you need to remix the concrete, but in the case of too much gypsum, you're probably going to want to throw away the batch anyway. I did my master's thesis on sulfate attack in concrete, looking at a specific attack that was induced by the application of calcium magnesium acetate deicing solutions.

I think it's also important to note that lightweight concrete is primarily made from lighweight aggregates. While you can make concrete with less of the ferro aluminate phase (C4AF), thus decreasing the specific gravity of the material, most of the weight decrease comes from using slightly less cement in the batch and lighter aggregates. Remember that the specific gravity of cement is 3.15, while the specific gravity of most aggregates is about 2.67.

 

[twinstead]

DA.
I just straitened a 6 inch by 4 inch peace of solid steel, Then heat treated it.
Got to remember not to bend it again.
Your not talking to a Cter here far from it!
I bent it by dropping a small rock, about a 3 or 4 tons, and it did fall at free fall speeds, maybe that could be a new Conspiracy?
Do you know where I can find a slightly used hydraulic press oh about 50-70 tons?

Dude. I'd KILL to see your back yard

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Dude. I'd KILL to see your back yard

I did not bend it in my back yard, I bent it moving a rock for a friend, the bar of steel was simply what I used to set the rock in the hole so that he can build a circle pond around it for his fish.
The bar guided the rock off the truck so the winch would pull it into place.
At the end the rock, Iron ore + sandstone, Fell off the truck sooner than I expected bent the bar and slid into the hole.
Now all he has to do is build the pond and put the umbrela in the hole in the rock, it even has another a nice hole for a beer holder.
It should be nice and cool under that shade tree on that rock in his back yard where he can watch his fish on weekends.
Didn't I mention that I was a stone mason and Sculptor of stone too?

I just took the airco torch set, put flame to it with a big rosebud and beat it back to shape with a big 25 pound sledge hammer.
It just had to be cherry red.
Then I took some charcoal a leaf blower, and heated the thing back up to straw yellow, and quinced it at the apropreate moment nothing to it.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Adding too much gypsum gives you the condition of "false set" wherein the ettringite stiffens the concrete. You also get this condition if you use anhydrous gypsum, the water causes the gypsum to rehydrate and stiffens the concrete mixture. The end result is that you need to remix the concrete, but in the case of too much gypsum, you're probably going to want to throw away the batch anyway. I did my master's thesis on sulfate attack in concrete, looking at a specific attack that was induced by the application of calcium magnesium acetate deicing solutions.

I think it's also important to note that lightweight concrete is primarily made from lighweight aggregates. While you can make concrete with less of the ferro aluminate phase (C4AF), thus decreasing the specific gravity of the material, most of the weight decrease comes from using slightly less cement in the batch and lighter aggregates. Remember that the specific gravity of cement is 3.15, while the specific gravity of most aggregates is about 2.67.

What I am adding is Anhydrite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrite

Gypsum is Anhydrite plus water.

I am getting a condition similar to false set, but I was trying to follow as best as I could the conditions of the concrete in the World Trade Center.

Here is a quote from Dr. Greening.

I recall reading somewhere that a lot of gypsum was added to the WTC concrete, and I mean a lot! I beleive some gypsum is allowed in lightweight concrete, but this was implying that the amount of gypsum was way out of spec. So that's one thing to consider.

Since the aggregate is small crushed limestone, and that is what is most interesting in the debate, some of it probably formed Gypsum which is why I am having the problems that I have with false set.

Thank Almond you have been very helpfully, if gypsum was formed in the concrete it can store sulfuric acid the same as the drywall did, and as the limited samples that I prepared of the concrete did.

Thank you, your incite has been most helpful.
When heated to 350c Gypsum breaks down into anhydrite and water releasing the trapped water and sulfuric acid.
That can happen in wall board or in concrete with high Gypsum.
I am just trying now to figure out the maximum acid that a content that a four in slab of concrete can store, and stay together.

Any incite anyone has will be helpful.

 

[A W Smith]

Poured Gypsum Flooring is used in many residential and commercial projects.
http://www.dcd.com/bpr/poured_gypsum.html
Im not suggesting that this is what was used in the trade center.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Poured Gypsum Flooring is used in many residential and commercial projects.
http://www.dcd.com/bpr/poured_gypsum.html
Im not suggesting that this is what was used in the trade center.

Only if the buildings were built in the 1980s, or latter, but that is interesting.
The builders in the World Trade Center might have been doing some experimenting with concrete mixtures.

 

[Belz...]

Frank Greening is good people but not easily converted to your religion as you found out.

Here's that old canard, again.

Well I guess you can all relax is get back to your every day "Troofer bashing'.

Too funny.

You know what I find funny ? The fact that you think disagreement means anything about YOUR theory. So, where's that evidence, now ?

I do like the term "NISTian" though...so apropos.

That's because you're making up reality as you go.

 

[truthseeker10]

Here's a short story about a house I lived in on Roosevelt Drive in Richmond Hill Ontario. Myself and my fiancee, my brother and his girlfriend at the time, it was a big enough home and had a huge back yard with a concrete and brick fire place. The night we moved into that house we decided to have a small fire in that fireplace. Shortly after we started the fire and the concrete was heating up it started exploding. We didn't know it would happen so when it did start to explode we all had to move back, because pieces of concrete were flying out at us. There were about 8 people that witnessed this.

My assumption is that maybe the fires heating up the concrete flooring in WTC1 and 2 could explain the sounds of explosives going off that the firefighters and police men heard before and during the collapse of the towers.

any thoughts?

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Here's a short story about a house I lived in on Roosevelt Drive in Richmond Hill Ontario. Myself and my fiancee, my brother and his girlfriend at the time, it was a big enough home and had a huge back yard with a concrete and brick fire place. The night we moved into that house we decided to have a small fire in that fireplace. Shortly after we started the fire and the concrete was heating up it started exploding. We didn't know it would happen so when it did start to explode we all had to move back, because pieces of concrete were flying out at us. There were about 8 people that witnessed this.

My assumption is that maybe the fires heating up the concrete flooring in WTC1 and 2 could explain the sounds of explosives going off that the firefighters and police men heard before and during the collapse of the towers.

any thoughts?

NO if a fireplace goes unused it can draw moisture into the mortar rapid heating will cause the materials then to expand steam actually building up in the morter or rock that causes the explosion your referring too.
Your supposed to dry the fireplace with a small fire first then light a big one.
It is similar to the reaction that I am looking for in the twin towers but not the same. I am looking for an out gassing that produces an explosive gas when the material is heated.

 

[Gravy]

Here's a short story about a house I lived in on Roosevelt Drive in Richmond Hill Ontario. Myself and my fiancee, my brother and his girlfriend at the time, it was a big enough home and had a huge back yard with a concrete and brick fire place. The night we moved into that house we decided to have a small fire in that fireplace. Shortly after we started the fire and the concrete was heating up it started exploding. We didn't know it would happen so when it did start to explode we all had to move back, because pieces of concrete were flying out at us. There were about 8 people that witnessed this.

My assumption is that maybe the fires heating up the concrete flooring in WTC1 and 2 could explain the sounds of explosives going off that the firefighters and police men heard before and during the collapse of the towers.

any thoughts?

An interesting fire-resisting treatment that's used in some concrete buildings is the addition of polyester fibers to the mix. When the concrete is heated by fire, the fibers melt and create channels to allow steam to escape, helping to prevent spalling.

There aren't many accounts of sounds like explosions at the WTC where the source is unknown. If concrete was fracturing due to heat during the collapses, that sound would have been mixed in with the much larger sounds of everything else failing.

 

[truthseeker10]

NO if a fireplace goes unused it can draw moisture into the mortar rapid heating will cause the materials then to expand steam actually building up in the morter or rock that causes the explosion your referring too.
Your supposed to dry the fireplace with a small fire first then light a big one.
It is similar to the reaction that I am looking for in the twin towers but not the same. I am looking for an out gassing that produces an explosive gas when the material is heated.

I see your point, but I did state that we started a small fire, we didn't have time to add wood to the fire before it started to explode. My next question is

Wouldn't any type of flooring cause some type of moisture build up in the concrete? And when was heated would have caused some explosions that people could have misinterpreted as being bombs going off? ok that is two questions

 

[Gravy]

truthseeker, as I mentioned, there aren't many accounts of explosions where the source is unknown. Is there a particular account or accounts you're thinking of? Perhaps I can help narrow the source down. I've looked into most of these accounts.

 

[TraitorBasher]

truthseeker, as I mentioned, there aren't many accounts of explosions where the source is unknown. Is there a particular account or accounts you're thinking of? Perhaps I can help narrow the source down. I've looked into most of these accounts.

The basement explosions trouble me. Even Frank Greening admitted they required further study since it is impossible that a FAE from the elevators could cause it.

 

[truthseeker10]

Gravy, not really except maybe the basement explosions. It was just something i had remembered about exploding concrete in a concrete and brick fireplace. I replied to Chainsaw's post before I had time to read your reply.

 

[TraitorBasher]

Gravy, not really except maybe the basement explosions. It was just something i had remembered about exploding concrete in a concrete and brick fireplace. I replied to Chainsaw's post before I had time to read your reply.

The basement explosions are unexplained. This paper is irrefutable

http://www.studyof911.com/articles/BsB100106/


Greening on Fetzers radio shoqw admitted they were an aspect that were unexplained and require further study.

 

[The Almond]

Here's a short story about a house I lived in on Roosevelt Drive in Richmond Hill Ontario. Myself and my fiancee, my brother and his girlfriend at the time, it was a big enough home and had a huge back yard with a concrete and brick fire place. The night we moved into that house we decided to have a small fire in that fireplace. Shortly after we started the fire and the concrete was heating up it started exploding. We didn't know it would happen so when it did start to explode we all had to move back, because pieces of concrete were flying out at us. There were about 8 people that witnessed this.

My assumption is that maybe the fires heating up the concrete flooring in WTC1 and 2 could explain the sounds of explosives going off that the firefighters and police men heard before and during the collapse of the towers.

any thoughts?

To start, the relative humidity of most concrete is about 80%. Remember, water does not leave the concrete system as it hardens. The CSH gel (the primary strength compound in concrete) has 8 water molecules attached to it.

Water is held within CSH in a variety of ways, ranging from bulk water in isolated capillary pores, through water physically adsorbed on surfaces or between surfaces (micropores) and water structurally associated with the solid (interlayer water), to hydroxyl water in the solid lattice.

All of that water in the concrete means that anytime the concrete is heated beyond 100 C, you have the potential for explosive spall as the water vaporizes. In addition, because of the poor thermal conductivity, a sharp temperature gradient can form causing cracks parallel to the surface of the concrete.

Gravy is correct in that adding fiber reinforcement will prevent things like explosive spall, but in general, the builders of fireplaces use refractory brick and cement/concrete. These concretes have lower percentages of water and higher thermal conductivity, allowing them to dissipate the heat more efficiently. It's unfortunate that the architect who designed your house did not account for this.

 

[Gravy]

The basement explosions are unexplained. This paper is irrefutable

If by "irrefutable" you mean "easily refutable," I agree.

I have much, much more information than in the post linked above. I'll have it on the internet soon.

 

[beachnut]

The basement explosions are unexplained. This paper is irrefutable

http://www.studyof911.com/articles/BsB100106/

And your proof? I did not see this paper published in a peer review journal. Did I miss it? Irrefutably debunked because it is full of hearsay, and not even close to being irrefutable.

Do CTers have a book to train them to be gullible?

 

[truthseeker10]

I see your point, but I did state that we started a small fire, we didn't have time to add wood to the fire before it started to explode. My next question is

Wouldn't any type of flooring cause some type of moisture build up in the concrete? And when was heated would have caused some explosions that people could have misinterpreted as being bombs going off? ok that is two questions

The basement explosions are unexplained. This paper is irrefutable

http://www.studyof911.com/articles/BsB100106/


Greening on Fetzers radio shoqw admitted they were an aspect that were unexplained and require further study.

I was listening to that while posting here today I heard it aswell