Debate! What debate?

[Foolmewunz]

Plus ca change, ..... I guess.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Jonestown was a local or should I say limited.
That is a really stupid comparison...anti-semitism has been around for thousands of years and frankly i am ashamed you even have the nerve to compare that to the 9/11 woo.
Now kindly answer my questions? Where would the LC crowd be without the internet?

Ironically ~enigma~ you just proved my point, anti-semitism in many ways is similar to a conspiracy movement that is why the Cters eat it up.
They now term it anti Zionism but that is just a new word for a few centuries old hate.
That is also why I brought it into the conversation it is part of the new conspiracy movement, as well as the Illuminati conspiracy all of which were spread and occurred before 9/11/2001.
The 9/11 conspiracy movement is a blend of several previous conspiracy movements from pre Internet Times all growing into one mass new movement of BS.

 

[~enigma~]

Ironically ~enigma~ you just proved my point, anti-semitism in many ways is similar to a conspiracy movement that is why the Cters eat it up.
They now term it anti Zionism but that is just a new word for a few centuries old hate.
That is also why I brought it into the conversation it is part of the new conspiracy movement, as well as the Illuminati conspiracy all of which were spread and occurred before 9/11/2001.
The 9/11 conspiracy movement is a blend of several previous conspiracy movements from pre Internet Times all growing into one mass new movement of BS.

Anti-semitism is also found within the new testament....are 9/11 conspiracy theories?

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Anti-semitism is also found within the new testament....are 9/11 conspiracy theories?

9/11 conspiracy theories were not around at the time the new testament was written however Anti semitism has blended in nicely with the truth movement.
So yes the Anti Semitism the dancing Israelis does have some tie to the New Testament as a reference source to the Cters.
In Fact Christianity can be said to be hypothetically a conspiracy in and of its own.
How were Christians treated by Nero again was Christianity just a was to over throw the pagans?
Are the stories about Nero even true or was it just Christian propoganda?
Conspiracies are born out of human imagination to prevent them just get people to stop thinking other wise there is no hope of keeping them from spreading one way or another.

 

[~enigma~]

9/11 conspiracy theories were not around at the time the new testament was written however Anti semitism has blended in nicely with the truth movement.
So yes the Anti Semitism the dancing Israelis does have some tie to the New Testament as a reference source to the Cters.
In Fact Christianity can be said to be hypothetically a conspiracy in and of its own.
How were Christians treated by Nero again was Christianity just a was to over throw the pagans?
Are the stories about Nero even true or was it just Christian propoganda?
Conspiracies are born out of human imagination to prevent them just get people to stop thinking other wise there is no hope of keeping them from spreading one way or another.

9/11 CTs have no relation whatsoever to the new testament and to even try to claim they do is something I would expect from the woo and their wogic. C'mon...your to intelligent for that stupidity. 9/11 CTs are just a convenient way for some idiots to express their anti-semitic bs. Not the other way around.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

9/11 CTs have no relation whatsoever to the new testament and to even try to claim they do is something I would expect from the woo and their wogic. C'mon...your to intelligent for that stupidity. 9/11 CTs are just a convenient way for some idiots to express their anti-semitic bs. Not the other way around.

Exactly, I was not attempting to link 9/11/ Cts with the new testament.
I am simply saying that the base Ideas have been around for a long time spread for a long time and are now being linked to the current CT. by what you and I would call the less fortunate in the brain department.
Arguing whether a CT can spread without the INTERNET could in fact be a Ct by itself because all it takes to spread a CT is a false persecutive of events.
Those events can be spread though any form of information transfer event, although I agree with you that the INTERNET does help it also helps dispel and debunk the same Ideas.
Look at how many people on Jerf have been a cter and then saw screw loose change and it changed their prospective.
Didn't you once tell me you were a Cter until you found Screw loose change?
You would not believe the Cts that spread around just by word of mouth when I was in high school People actually believing Aliens and stuff.
Cts will happen because people like interesting fairy tails and most people do not take the time to check facts.
Fortunately for me I had some one to set me strait after I watched loose change I called Dr. Steven E. Jones and that one Phone conversation was all it took.
Right now I am tired worn out, to many emails too much Woo so I may not be thinking too clearly.
One Cter actually called me the Crazy Caveman from Jerf, and told me to ask Nova about the sulfide even sent me a link to this program.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/caves/about.html

Now that Idea is Major Woo, that bacteria could have been responsible for the sulfides.
My head hurts just thinking about it.
~enigma~ I am not here to argue with you I did not come to jerf to argue with anyone!
I came to jerf because I honestly thought that jerf was a site were I could actually find reference material and information to actually find the truth that the truth movement was not telling anyone and enlighten others to what the facts really were!
~enigma~ I value your incites and your rationality, along with your Knowledgeable opinion and View points, and you brought up the new testament not I.
I know people in my local community that do not even have an INTERNET connection or computer and yet people are passing around and sharing the loose change video, from person to person on DVD.
It sometimes feels like the whole world has gone nuts.

 

[~enigma~]

Exactly, I was not attempting to link 9/11/ Cts with the new testament.

Good. Your not crazy

I am simply saying that the base Ideas have been around for a long time spread for a long time and are now being linked to the current CT. by what you and I would call the less fortunate in the brain department.

Idea of CT has been around pre-internet yes. LC hasn't nor have the wooish ideas of the truth movement. If it was a valid CT on it's own...it wouls stand on it's own. it doesn't though does it? It needs the support of other more well know theories.

Didn't you once tell me you were a Cter until you found Screw loose change?

I never said no such thing. I did believe in the LIHOP side of things somewhat until i saw the lies that the woo passed off as truth to their own such as the NORAD standdown and the 81 minute intercept crap. However, i don't recall sending you a PM about that but maybe i did. Screw Loose Change had nothing to do with it.

You would not believe the Cts that spread around just by word of mouth when I was in high school People actually believing Aliens and stuff.
Cts will happen because people like interesting fairy tails and most people do not take the time to check facts.

I guess you are considering plain vanilla urban legends to be CTs. They aren't.

Jerf

JREF...is it really that hard to type?

know people in my local community that do not even have an INTERNET connection or computer and yet people are passing around and sharing the loose change video, from person to person on DVD.
It sometimes feels like the whole world has gone nuts.

And I suppose that the fact that someone somewhere got the original from the internet doesn't matter in your thoughts? If it were not for all the bs CTs that the truthers latch onto. The truth movement could not exist. Certainly not without the internet. Want to prove me wrong? Even let them use the internet, just have them drop ass the other crap that supports them like a crutch and you will see them flounder and go under.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Oridginally posted by~enigma~

Idea of CT has been around pre-internet yes. LC hasn't nor have the wooish ideas of the truth movement. If it was a valid CT on it's own...it wouls stand on it's own. it doesn't though does it? It needs the support of other more well know theories.

Agreed.

I never said no such thing. I did believe in the LIHOP side of things somewhat until i saw the lies that the woo passed off as truth to their own such as the NORAD standdown and the 81 minute intercept crap. However, i don't recall sending you a PM about that but maybe i did. Screw Loose Change had nothing to do with it.

It was in the invite on myspace, and it was the LIHOP, I just checked and no you did not mention screw loose change.

I guess you are considering plain vanilla urban legends to be CTs.They aren't.

NO I know the difference between CTs and vanilla urban legions one of the most popular Cts had to do with experimental aircraft at area 51. they in part turned out to be partly true there were stealth air craft but not alien.

JREF...is it really that hard to type?

Try doing it solely with the right hand and holding down the shift key at the same time. I do have a bad left arm that sometimes I can not even move.

And I suppose that the fact that someone somewhere got the original from the internet doesn't matter in your thoughts? If it were not for all the bs CTs that the truthers latch onto. The truth movement could not exist. Certainly not without the internet. Want to prove me wrong? Even let them use the internet, just have them drop ass the other crap that supports them like a crutch and you will see them flounder and go under.

Actually the guy who had the oridginal said he was personally handed the DvD By a young man guess the name it starts with D, from New York City while he was visiting the world trade center site. He now wishes he had thrown it in the garbage before he left New York his teen age Daughter made about a hundred copies and destributed them though the local comunity.

I respectfully disagree with you on the survival of loose change CT, without the INTERNET, as long as there is something to sell, and someone stupid enough to buy it people will be pushing it. Though I do blame the blogs for really promoting it heavy.
If you notice I do not have a blog, I wanted to do a video, of the experiments that I had done but it is a real problem to do them and then to record them by yourself using only one hand though the whole process.
I agree with you though that if people are informed that the CT. dies, However most of the people now spreading the Ct are to dumb to research it, or to young to understand much of it.
To them were all just a bunch of paid government shills.

 

[gumboot]

If you notice I do not have a blog, I wanted to do a video, of the experiments that I had done but it is a real problem to do them and then to record them by yourself using only one hand though the whole process.

Tripod... If you have a camera you can pick up a little tripod capable of holding a handycam for pretty cheap. Frame it up, allowing some space, press record, and get stuck in.

Just be sure to keep it a decent distance away (maybe zoom in) so you don't melt your camera like they did in Mythbusters!

-Gumboot

 

[PhantomWolf]

Now kindly answer my questions? Where would the LC crowd be without the internet?

I think they'd still exist, they just wouldn't have the numbers they do, or the ability to reach out and look stupid.

There have been a lot of CT's out there before the Internet, the classic four are Pearl Habour, JFK, Apollo, and the Holocaust. Until the Internet the number of people actively pushing them was relatively small because instead of slamming together a crud webpage or jumping onto a message board, or you-tube, those pushing them had to actually write a book and get it published, or produce a video and get it marketed. That meant that most of the really loony toon CT's got weeded out simply by market forces.

Today we don't have that. Anyone with half an ounce of HTML skill (or less if they use a homepage editor) can put up a free webpage on geocities or angelfire in a matter of minutes. They can post on 50 different boards, post their videos on You-tube and Google Video all for free and have an instant market. Not only can they reach a wider audience, but it's an audience that is often fed-up with authority and unwilling to question what anti-authority because it feeds right into what they are looking for.

There seems also to be a belief that if it's on the net it must be true, a belief that the "common man" using "comman sense" wouldn't be out to trick you or be deliberately lying to you, while Governments and authorities are power abusers and lairs who can't be trusted, so if the "common man" says one thing, and the Government says the other, then the "common man" is the one telling the truth.

I suppose in a way what we are seeing today is the classic example of the boy that called wolf.

 

[~enigma~]

Now kindly answer my questions? Where would the LC crowd be without the internet?

I think they'd still exist, they just wouldn't have the numbers they do, or the ability to reach out and look stupid.

Correct and if you take the classic 4 CTs you mention out of the 9/11 wackos, yes they but much less than they are now and without the internet it would be much more local. Now, there are probably some truth groups in Europe.

 

[A W Smith]

Holy hell in a handbasket. what happened to this thread? You guys fighting? this guy Appalling20 (the OP) said hes gone forever didn't he? Why not start a thread in flame wars or something.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Holy hell in a handbasket. what happened to this thread? You guys fighting? this guy Appalling20 (the OP) said hes gone forever didn't he? Why not start a thread in flame wars or something.

Just another day on JERF, would you perfer that every one who disagrees with NIST in some small way be banned instantly from JERF?
What would JERF be if the JERF did that?
Also if sulfates did play a role in 9/11/2001, there is an easy fix pin like holes in the floor pans would have allowed oxygen into the bottom of the concrete and the sulfur would have oxidized slowly.
The pans would have been the major sources not the reinforcements in the concrete.
The reinforcements themselves being surrounded by concrete might have burned but in too small an amount to be of consequence to the overall heat produced.
The analogy is the floor pans would have been like a torch, but the reinforcement like matches.
The combination is like lighting matches with a torch.
Pin like hole would how ever increase oxidation of the floor pans, though since they are not structural I do not think that matters much.
Well have to go the old 9am. to 9pm. is calling so have I nice day I am sure I will not today.

 

[A W Smith]

Just another day on JERF, would you perfer that every one who disagrees with NIST in some small way be banned instantly from JERF?
What would JERF be if the JERF did that?

????????????? where do you get that from my post? Wheres jerf anyway? And have a doctor look at that carpel tunnel syndrome or get a chainsaw with less vibration.

 

[T.A.M.]

Just another day on JERF, would you perfer that every one who disagrees with NIST in some small way be banned instantly from JERF?
What would JERF be if the JERF did that?
Also if sulfates did play a role in 9/11/2001, there is an easy fix pin like holes in the floor pans would have allowed oxygen into the bottom of the concrete and the sulfur would have oxidized slowly.
The pans would have been the major sources not the reinforcements in the concrete.
The reinforcements themselves being surrounded by concrete might have burned but in too small an amount to be of consequence to the overall heat produced.
The analogy is the floor pans would have been like a torch, but the reinforcement like matches.
The combination is like lighting matches with a torch.
Pin like hole would how ever increase oxidation of the floor pans, though since they are not structural I do not think that matters much.
Well have to go the old 9am. to 9pm. is calling so have I nice day I am sure I will not today.

CC:

The crowd seems restless and cranky lately. I think alot of them were heavily disappointed with Dr. Greening, and some of those feelings likely transfering elsewhere.

Your input, as always is valuable and insightful. Please continue to post. By eating away at NIST, so to speak, in a PROPER, SCIENTIFIC FASHION, we can only make the evidence more sound, less suseptable to the "hole poking" activities of the Truth movement. Beyond that, it is what is needed to arrive at the REAL TRUTH.

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

????????????? where do you get that from my post? Wheres jerf anyway? And have a doctor look at that carpel tunnel syndrome or get a chainsaw with less vibration.

Yes, get your GP to prescribe some nighttime spints, and if that fails, get him to arrange decompression surgery.

TAM

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

????????????? where do you get that from my post? Wheres jerf anyway? And have a doctor look at that carpel tunnel syndrome or get a chainsaw with less vibration.

The INTERNET, and I have seen that discussions here can be very interesting. Interesting discussions often lead to debate.
My problem is not carpel tunnel, as my chainsaws have very good anti-vibration systems.
My problem is being dragged by my left arm for about 2 miles behind a tractor down a gravel road when I was about 4 years old.
The heals of my Cowboy boots were ground off by the gravel even though I was in the air most of the time.
My shoulder my neck and my back were all effected and still I work with chainsaws and do heavy lifting, on a daily basis. I just do not let the pain get to me keeping my mind occupied on interesting problems such as the World Trade Center is the Key to that.
The numbness from the strain that the nerves in my arm are put under bothers me more than the pain I will gladly put up with the pain, as long as I can use my hand it is when I can not use my hand that it really bothers me I constantly worry that it will go numb for good, but it always recovers.
I just have the fear and always have had the fear that it will one day loose all feeling for good.
I can tell you that DR. Greening also knows about pain, and that right now he is feeling pain, the pain of obstruction of his work by the literally worship of Nist, by some in the intellectual community.
Along with the same call to Authority that let Dr. Jones and Dr. Fetzer along with Dr. Wood, and Dr. Griffin actually give some credibility to the truth movement in the first place.
As well as the fear of the intellectual community to not be seen as a CTER kookoo Woo hoo.
Dr Greening believes that Ideas must firmly be grounded on good science no matter what the Idea, no matter if the person has a PHD in stupidly or not.
When you know more about Dr. Greening you will understand him a little more and this post will make more since to you, ya he is a little bit Woo Hoo, but only Woo HOO about true Science, and only Woo Hoo when exploring new Ideas and looking for new inspiration.
Sometimes a few Crazy Ideas are what is needed for true inspiration, even for the best Scientist. Remember when Quintessence was said by Einstein to be his biggest blunder then I has been shown that it may in fact be true but renamed as dark energy.
That Idea was also termed a Woo Hoo by physicist at the time.

 

[rwguinn]

From Apollo20's post.



The problem is the Nist reports do not point to any reaction or series of reactions that could have produced the amount of spiracles. Spiracles can be produced by friction but tend to gather other elements while still molten and become deformed, no longer spiracles.
They seem to only have been created by a process like off gassing of carbon dioxide, from steel do to heat a process that does not involve any solid particles that they can attach to.
It points to another natural reaction that NIST Left out of its findings, it is actually a mystery.

CC:
Does the NIST report address possible localized temperatures which may (Probably) were in excess of the average, widespread temperatures addressed so much.
At the time of collision and combustion of the fuel-air mix, there were likely local areas which had a lean fuel/air aerosol which could have been hot enough and contained enough heat to melt small cross-sectional areas of steel, especially in the area of the shredded stuff where the plane/structure impact actually was.
Such would be expected, and not particularly notable, IMO
ETA--this is especially a likely scenario when one considers the friction effects of everything either coming to a screeching halt, or, in the case of the landing gear/engines, slowing down very quickly. Lots of mass there...

 

[T.A.M.]

CC:

Sounds like you suffered a Brachial Plexus Injury. very nasty. You are lucky to have the use of your limb to any degree.

As for Dr. Greening, it is sad that he considers the defense of NIST as obstructive to his work. I would suggest that those who bark the loudest, often myself, have the least amount of background in it, so we take much of it at face value, because it was created by a panel of legitimate scientists, and was such an openly available work. Like all science, it can only become better through the work of other scientists to critique, and where needed, correct it.

TAM

 

[Belz...]

He said he was taking to the road indicating travel, I believe he is going looking for actual samples of the evidence for confirmation of his Ideas.

He has this Horrible habit of wanting confirmation, and having his Ideas peer reviewed and published in respected Journals.

I think it will be a waste of time though, as only one side will ever read a peer reviewed paper published in a respected Journal.

The rest will just rely on INTERNET websites like the scholars, or Alex Jones for their science incites.

Well I hope he does come back. Sober, this time.

They now term it anti Zionism but that is just a new word for a few centuries old hate.
That is also why I brought it into the conversation it is part of the new conspiracy movement, as well as the Illuminati conspiracy all of which were spread and occurred before 9/11/2001.

However, Enigma is partly correct in that the Internet surely does speed up the spreading process. Hopefully, the wealth of information on the net helps balance things up. Hopefully.

jerf

That's JREF, man.

I think they'd still exist, they just wouldn't have the numbers they do, or the ability to reach out and look stupid.

Actually, without the internet they'd pretty much HAVE TO come out and look stupid. The internet makes them invisible. Only their "arguments" show.