Dealing with Terrorism?

[Mephisto]

We don't have enough people with the balls to keep the world in order, hence we are now ****ed.

So, your solution is to have more people with testicles? Wait a minute, aren't they the ones who start the wars to begin with?

I would prefer to keep the dog chasing the mail man, then let him stay home and chew on the couch.

Your mailman chews on your couch? And I thought I had problems - my mailman always delivers my monthly issue of "Liberal-Pantywaist" to my neighbor's house.

Countries that are still dramatically set back by war still exists in parts of europe, asia, and the middle east. They dont progress in society or in technology, but rather continue to rivalry amongst themselves.

I suppose you don't consider the U.S. a "country set back by war?" Do you know how much debt we're in? Do you know how many (ball-less) people are dying in Iraq? Do you know how many religious extremists have jumped on the Bin Laden band wagon since the war in Iraq? We're going to be one of those countries pretty soon, if we already aren't.

Would you like to see every third world country progress to nuclear technology, or let then blow themselves up with gunpower and explosives, then reach that point and blow American up.

I don't understand you - you say every third world country who develops nuclear technology will obliterate themselves, THEN come after us? How is that possible if they "blow themselves up" first?

 

[Mephisto]

i don't think i my point clear enough. another example: the talibin's been run out of Afghanistan (or just melted into the crowd). the warlords have the same power as before, nothing has changed. the farmers biggest cash crop is still opium. with enough stashed to last them the next two or three years. the u.s.of a. still has troops on the ground keeping order.

Lostnick,

You've got a lot of compatriots here, but you've run into two seasoned fellows who could easily confuse an experienced attorney on their worst day. Don't hold anything against them as both Rik and Zig are fine fellows who can hone your arguments to a fine edge by keeping YOU on your toes. They hold different viewpoints than my own, but I sincerely respect their rhetorical skills - they're both Master-Debaters.

Welcome to the forum and good luck - there ARE people here who aren't as cordial as Rik and Zig.

Mephisto

 

[Orwell]

Sorry, I didn't quite get that... Rik and Zig are what exactly? Master'baters?

 

[Ziggurat]

Sorry, I didn't quite get that... Rik and Zig are what exactly? Master'baters?

You know me, always eager to lend a hand.

 

[lostnick3]

mephisto
just getting my medication adjusted. thanks for the info

 

[peptoabysmal]

north Korea kicked our butts down to Pusan twice now without nukes. who's to say they can't do it today. and they could not care less if you nuke, gas or bug large numbers of civilians. and its already pr oven that they can launch a missile close enough to japan to make us sit-up and take notice.

I didn't raise the spectre of North Korea launching a nuclear attack on the US, someone else did. I merely pointed out that they wouldn't survive it.

i don't think i my point clear enough. another example: the talibin's been run out of Afghanistan (or just melted into the crowd). the warlords have the same power as before, nothing has changed. the farmers biggest cash crop is still opium. with enough stashed to last them the next two or three years. the u.s.of a. still has troops on the ground keeping order.

now the connection to us at home.

the opium in the hills of Afghanistan gets sent to Europe for possessing into heron. the heron gets shipped in bulk to America. then cut and sent down the food chain (i sure you all know the drill) until it gets to the little Gangsta gangbanger wanta be sh1t's around the corner from me that talk trash and maddog me when i walk my dog. and i live in a really nice neighborhood!! it doesn't matter who you are 8 to 80 if you got the cash you get some stash. now if your selling heron in southern California, from Fresno to the Mexican border you have to pay taxes to the Mexican mafia (these guys are just as smart as the taliban) without question. or people you know and love start to go missing or die until you come into compliance. just like in Afghanistan where our troops are keeping the peace. there is so much money involved that it can corrupt from the local police up thru the state police, FBI, DEA, CIA, and probably on up. and this is just a small piece of whats going on here in the homeland.

yes local terrorists are criminals so are the international ones. if we can find a way within the laws of the land to deal with our terrorists then we can develop a way to deal with the international ones.

Americia has a horrible track record for solving its forign affair problems.

[ttext=100] "democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage" H. L. Mencken[/ttext]

Criticism noted. What's your proposed solution?

 

[lostnick3]

the terrorists are a red herring. just like the razor blades and poison candy stories that destroyed Halloween for millions of kids. 9/11 was a isolated incident. we have home grown nut cases doing the same thing. I'm sorry for the loss of lives but to put it into perspective in 2001 8000 people died falling down at home. 9/11 is being used to destroy the Constitution and bill of rights in the name of safety.

thats what terrorizes me.

the solution? your staring at it. and its not me (i got one more ass whooping left) i think plan A should include nonviolence, humor and mockery.plan B's covered in the constitution. cable TV's days are numbered. then what?

in closing I'd like to throw out a "happy birthday 2001 (BC around ad) J.C." peace and love bt ar.

 

[Elind]

the terrorists are a red herring. just like the razor blades and poison candy stories that destroyed Halloween for millions of kids. 9/11 was a isolated incident. we have home grown nut cases doing the same thing. I'm sorry for the loss of lives but to put it into perspective in 2001 8000 people died falling down at home. 9/11 is being used to destroy the Constitution and bill of rights in the name of safety.

All I can say is I'm thankful you are not responsible for our safety.

 

[Ziggurat]

the terrorists are a red herring. just like the razor blades and poison candy stories that destroyed Halloween for millions of kids. 9/11 was a isolated incident.

Umm... no. Haven't you ever heard of the Africa embassy bombings? The USS Cole? The Khobar Tower bombings? Bali? Madrid's 3/11? London's 7/7? The murder of Theo Van Gogh? The continuing death threat against Rushdie?

Hell, even the 1993 world trade center bombings?

Under what plausible definition of the word "isolated" does 9/11 qualify? Must be some language other than English.

the solution? your staring at it. and its not me (i got one more ass whooping left) i think plan A should include nonviolence, humor and mockery.

Yeah. THAT'll sure scare them terrorists. Sorry, but against some enemies, practicing "nonviolence" just makes it easier for them to kill you.

 

[Elind]

He's probably too young to know about all that stuff. Go easy 'till we see how he matures

 

[lostnick3]

I just for info I am old enough to have collected combat pay during the last war the American citizens had the knowledge of and freedom to stop.

The plausible definition of “isolated” incident is that the 9/11 attack has been the only incident in the continental U.S... You can throw in Alaska, Hawaii and the trust territories it still adds to one (1).

The original solution at the beginning of the thread is the Nazi “final solution” in a different dress.

Of course Plan A is nonviolent when I said you were looking at it (the solution) I meant Personal Computers cheap ass solar powered, hand cranked suckers connected to the internet via cheap ass low budget satellites. Throw in a camera and speakers then give then away to people in third world country is BEFORE you sell then guns. Languages can be translated on line connect us with 0’s & 1’s.

As for Plan B, I am only non-violent up to a point then I put on my war paint and hook-up with my posse. I have never enjoyed watching young people (or anyone) with everything to live for die. Plan B is always messy, filthy and takes more time than necessary. In the end the peasants on all sides lose. The rich get richer selling to everyone .

 

[Ziggurat]

The plausible definition of “isolated” incident is that the 9/11 attack has been the only incident in the continental U.S...

Umm... that was still the SECOND time they tried to knock down those very same buildings. Do you honestly not remember the 1993 world trade center bombings? That was a terrorist attack on US soil. And I included it in the above list, too, so even if you didn't remember it you should have realized that your statement is plainly not true.

And frankly, when US citizens are murdered by terrorists, I don't CARE if it wasn't on US soil, it's still an attack against our country.

The original solution at the beginning of the thread is the Nazi “final solution” in a different dress.

The original post was stupid, you'll get no argument from me about that. But the fact that indescriminate mass murder isn't the appropriate response right now doesn't mean that there isn't a war on, and that we don't need to be aggressive.

Of course Plan A is nonviolent when I said you were looking at it (the solution) I meant Personal Computers cheap ass solar powered, hand cranked suckers connected to the internet via cheap ass low budget satellites.

There's no such thing as cheap solar power, and there won't be for quite some time. And even if computers with satellite connections were free, you think totalitarian states would allow such things? Saddam didn't even allow satellite TV's, he would have killed people he found running something like a weblog.

Throw in a camera and speakers then give then away to people in third world country is BEFORE you sell then guns.

The problem isn't the US selling guns to the third world. We could stop completely, and nothing would change. Why? Because China is going to sell them whatever weapons they want, and it has absolutely no qualms about supporting the absolute worst in humanity. Did you know that most of the people killed in Rwanda's genocide were killed not with guns, but with machetes purchased from China? And right now, China is protecting Sudan from UN pressure over the violence and ethnic cleansing going on in Darfur. That's a situation where giving guns to the people of Darfur might actually HELP. God knows that internet access will do nothing to protect them from the janjaweed.

As for Plan B, I am only non-violent up to a point then I put on my war paint and hook-up with my posse.

Plan A failed years ago, and we're on Plan B already.

 

[lostnick3]

picky picky picky

Make that the first successful attack. (yes yes the first try sliped out my mind. i'm telling ya now its not my first brain fart won't be the last. just try to stay with me) A free society is vulnerable to this kind of attack just because it is free. The current solution is a reduction in freedom, just ass off in the interrogation line at the airport. I'm still in more danger of getting beat to death or shot by the little gangbanger wannabe's around the corner selling drug that Emperor the Bush is having our troops guard in the middle east.

Your take on that.

As for your second statement, you’re on the same planet different world. As I see it in the Muslim world, you are Muslin first. In our world, you are American first and now we are a “Christian” nation as opposed to a secular nation where your religion is your own business. Walk a mile in Joe Muslin’s sandals. Just another Christian Crusade shoot out. Compare the damage, which country or country's have been or bing blown up more ours or theirs?

Whats your solution if your number two in this fiasco considering your betting your betting your wife, kids, family, even Uncle Chester?

So you do not like solar. There are cheap hand cranked electrical generators, are cheap foot cranked electrical generator, are cheap water cranked electrical generators, are cheap electrical cranked electrical generators, hell if you looked hard enough on the internet I bet you five you could find plans for a simple burro powered electrical generator. Pick one

1. we’re #3
2. yes
3. no
4. wrong

It was not my Plan A. I would like to add that I would have asked the Ham Radio people to send up a low orbit satellite with a wifi hook-up or whatever connection was necessary. Their smart bunch if it can be done on the cheap they can do it. So I see no problem if they were connected to the internet prior to the current genocide they could have formulated plans for escape and evasion. When it came to Plan B. study guerrilla warfare tactics, implement what is practical to your situation, practice teamwork, network, a homemade rocket can take out a helicopter just like a multi-million one can and finally when all else fails “Genocide LIVE from Dafur” see the Janjaweed in action brought to you by the nations of Sudan, China, Big oil and those wonderful folks at the United Nations. Oh, I forgot we need to add a couple of microphones to the P.C. so the shooting, screaming, crying, and explosions may have full stereo effect.
ta ta

love & kisses the wild & wooly lostnick3 (medicated to my eyeball as usual)

 

[gnome]

As I see it in the Muslim world, you are Muslim first. In our world, you are American first and now we are a “Christian” nation as opposed to a secular nation where your religion is your own business.

I just wanted to isolate this gem. Can I paraphrase it:

In the Muslim world, you are a Muslim first. Instead of being a "Christian" nation let's be a nation where your religion is your own business.

 

[WildCat]

What are you talking about?!

I can't believe people are actually arguing w/ this, I'd swear that lostnik3 is a bot. Some college kids experiment...

 

[lostnick3]

I can't believe people are actually arguing w/ this, I'd swear that lostnik3 is a bot. Some college kids experiment...

Arguing?

I thought this forum was for discussion possibly leading to a solution. What do you have to add thats constructive? I've been to some bad places, where I would like to see the people there have the same opportunities I have free of local, regional and state terrorists.

Bot!! I got your bot!

unconfirmed p.s.

A quick look at first 10 pages of the member list indicates maybe 5% of the membership has over 1000 posts and the members with 0 posts in the majority (i didn't count them feel free) is there some significance to these numbers?

as always lostnick3 243 lbs of ugly (not a bot)

 

[Ziggurat]

picky picky picky

Make that the first successful attack. (yes yes the first try sliped out my mind. i'm telling ya now its not my first brain fart won't be the last. just try to stay with me)

The 1993 attack killed 6 people. Thankfully it didn't topple the buildings and kill the tens of thousands they were hoping for, but those 6 people are still quite dead. The attacks against the American embassies in Africa were also attacks against American soil, because that's what an embassy is. The attack against the Cole was an act of warfare, and we should have responded to it as such: by taking the fight to the enemy until we won, not by tossing a few cruise missiles and convincing ourselves that we had taught them any lesson other than that we were spineless cowards who would always retreat after being bloodied. And killings of Americans traveling abroad are just as much an affront to us as killing Americans on American soil.

A free society is vulnerable to this kind of attack just because it is free. The current solution is a reduction in freedom, just ass off in the interrogation line at the airport. I'm still in more danger of getting beat to death or shot by the little gangbanger wannabe's around the corner selling drug that Emperor the Bush is having our troops guard in the middle east.

Your take on that.

Terrorist violence is much more dangerous to a society than ordinary criminality, because it tears at the fabric of social connections in a much more insidious way. The number of people killed on Sept. 11 was high, but the economic damage that cascaded from that event was astronomical (half a trillion dollars). And it had been getting worse: you might like to pretend that 9/11 is isolated, but over the past decade preceding 9/11, Al Quaeda and other radical groups had been getting stronger, not weaker. They were a problem we simply could not ignore.

Yes, I understand the whole "we can't give up our freedom or the terrorists will win" attitude. But if the terrorists manage to strike us hard again, like on 9/11 or even worse, the demand to clamp down on freedoms will increase dramatically, and the public simply will NOT be interested in any libertarian concerns. This is ESPECIALLY true if those concerns win out in the short run, no restrictions on freedom are taken at all, and we get hit again. Paradoxically, having minor restrictions (and really: what can you not do now that you could do before which actually matters?) helps protect us from getting backed into a corner where the demand for major restrictions on freedom becomes irresistable.

Walk a mile in Joe Muslin’s sandals. Just another Christian Crusade shoot out. Compare the damage, which country or country's have been or bing blown up more ours or theirs?

Well, let's think about that for a moment: who has been responsible for killing more Muslims, by far, than ANY other person alive?

Why, that would be Saddam.

Who do Islamic terrorists kill more of, Christians or Muslims?

Why, that would be Muslims.

The problem of violence in the Muslim world is mostly a problem of violence BY Muslims AGAINST Muslims. Muslims are the primary victims of Islamic terrorists and arab dictators. Muslims are therefore also the primary BENEFACTORS when we remove despotic regimes and confront terrorist organizations. Toppling the Taliban has done more for Afghanis than it did for us.