Dead is the End?

[Iacchus]

Just for the sake of argument...

What's the point of talking about us being here as a waste, unless you presuppose some sort of ultimate purpose for us? Life may seem a waste to us, but I doubt the universe cares.

Do human beings human care? Then so does the universe. Unless of course you're willing to say that human beings aren't a part of it.

 

[Upchurch]

Unless of course you're willing to say that human beings aren't a part of it.

I'm willing to say that human beings are a very small, very unimportant portion of the universe. Further, I'd say that the vast majority of the universe probably doesn't care about us humans, assuming that rest of it even has the capacity to care in the first place.

 

[Iacchus]

Iacchus, why don't you propose the most grand and glorious after-death scenario that you can possibly imagine. Then tell us what the point of it is.

~~ Paul

But I would just be imagining things now wouldn't I? Besides, that would be telling.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Gods, I hope there's nothing after death. Can you imagine another ten gazillion boring Sunday afternoons? And that's just for starters.

I did'nt exist for the first 15 billion years of this particular quantum flutter and I won't exist for the rest of it. The 48 I have existed for have been largely fun, but frankly, various bits already hurt in the mornings, while others have dropped clean off. I have reservations about the next couple of decades: I would hate to think there's no "off" switch.

 

[Iacchus]

I'd like to see some evidence instead of all those "what-if"s and other wishful thinking which completely fails to impress.

It's just your basic philosophical question, designed to get people to think, ya think?

 

[T'ai Chi]

Re: Re: Dead is the End?

Someone said:
(bold mine)

"Proof by assertion. ..., nothing more, ..."

Proof by assertion.

"Life, after all, is much more valuable to the atheist who does not believe in the myth of life after death, because THIS LIFE IS ALL THERE IS."

Proof by assertion.

Do you have any scientific studies to back up your claim that "life is much more valuable to the atheist" nad "this life is all there is"? If they don't know, neither do you.

Don't delay- please post your peer-reviewed scientific studies in your very next reply, that is, if it wasn't just your opinion.

 

[Dancing David]

It is a thought that has been trod down many a time, nothing new to it. Why worry about life after death, we are alive, when we are dead we will be dead.

If it is a phase transition then there won't be the transmission of information. Does water vapor remember ice?

Being is.

 

[Iacchus]

I'm willing to say that human beings are a very small, very unimportant portion of the universe. Further, I'd say that the vast majority of the universe probably doesn't care about us humans, assuming that rest of it even has the capacity to care in the first place.

Then why should we care about what can only be construed as an infinitesimal little glitch that occurs in universal terms (i.e., time and space), between our birth and our death? Why take yourself so seriously then?

If the universe doesn't care, then why are we here "reasoning" about it?

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Then why should we care about what can only be construed as an infinitesimal little glitch that occurs in universal terms (i.e., time and space), between our birth and our death? Why take yourself so seriously then?

If the universe doesn't care, then why are we here "reasoning" about it?

Why do we need to be of massive import to the entire universe in order to be important to ourselves and each other? Why does that have to be true to be curious about things?

 

[Iacchus]

Iacchus once again is:
1.) assuming this life is a waste
2.) There's better stuff on the other side of the septic tank
3.) is working on faith there's life after death and using it as "fact"
4.) assuming there is a god

No, I'm just questioning why I'm here?

Actually, the greatest of unknowns, I think, (and Kitten would agree with me), is how much could we get for selling El Greco into slavery?

 

[T'ai Chi]

Iacchus,

I love the types of questions that you raised in your opening post.

I see death equally as necessary as life, for without life, there is no death, and vice-versa. Therefore, I see death as just another (albeit a very important) transformation, a continuing of the process that is experience.

I just have to say that it is important as anything in our "waking" life (just like before birth), but that I don't know what happens with any certainty. I'm looking forward to one (a natural one, after about 85 or so years).

 

[Iacchus]

This is the kind of argument believers drag out convinced that it will stop us poor, unthinking non-believers in our tracks. A tear will roll down our face, we'll realize the futility of a life without Jebus and we'll be at church the very next Sunday.

Like all creatures, human beings have a survival instinct. We want to survive and we want to be comfortable doing so. Our work in life is geared towards this end. What other choice do we have, really? Just give up and die? We wouldn't have survived as a species without the drive to survive, whatever our eventual individual end.

Ever stop to think that the only thing that makes sense out of anything is consciousness? Perhaps our brains and bodies are merely receptacles, linked to this thing called Universal Consciousness?

Think about it. How else could we ever possibly agree that 1 + 1 = 2? If in fact there weren't somehing inherently universal -- i.e., through consciousness -- about it?

 

[Iacchus]

Iacchus,

I love the types of questions that you raised in your opening post.

I see death equally as necessary as life, for without life, there is no death, and vice-versa. Therefore, I see death as just another (albeit a very important) transformation, a continuing of the process that is experience.

I just have to say that it is important as anything in our "waking" life (just like before birth), but that I don't know what happens with any certainty. I'm looking forward to one (a natural one, after about 85 or so years).

Yes, but what do grubs now -- except perhaps to prepare for when the time comes -- about being a butterfly?

 

[neutrino_cannon]

Yes, but do grubs now -- except perhaps to prepare for when the time comes -- about being a butterfly?

The knowlege presently availible of the nervous system of a larval insect would compeel me to state that they really don't know about anything in advance to the sort of extent that we do.

That and the analogy is irrelevant.

We know about our deaths well in advance, a grup (grubs turn into flies BTW) has no conception, in all likliness, of it's impending transformation. Furthermore, metamorphosis in necessarily a change that is observable to other grubs, and if they were but bright enough to know what was going on to their comrade they would know the process is of transitory nature, with life thereafter.

In death we have no such ability. When I look at a dying creature I just injected piping-hot lead into, I can be quite sure that it is not turning into a bloody moth. Further reassurance of this position comes when I rip out the innards, and see that all processes are ceased, save bleeding all over me.

And so what if there is an afterlife. There's no way to test anything about it, or even be sure that it exists. We might as well worship the invisable pink unicorn, being that the evidence for either entity is the same. Focus on worldly problems I say. (see sigline)

And if I ever find this "god" guy, then he had better hope that his omnipotence is still working, cause if it isn't he's gonna go back to heavan with an ear in his mouth for all the ◊◊◊◊ he's pulled down here.

 

[Iacchus]

I've thought a bit more on this question and I realized that I never really answered it.

The reason humanity as a whole endevors to learn new things and to improve ourselves in general is for the benefit of our children. The survival and betterment of our species is any parent's ultimate goal.

There is no necessity in a "vocation" in the "next life" for us to learn in this one.

You're getting closer to the analogy I see. And let's just assume for a moment that there were a Creator whom, some of us may address as Father. Don't you think He'd have a similar concern about the welfare of His children as well?

 

[neutrino_cannon]

You're getting closer to the analogy I see. And let's just assume for a moment that there were a Creator whom, some of us may address as Father. Don't you think He'd have a similar concern about the welfare of His children as well?

Clearly, only some of us are children if what you say is true.

Otherwise he's a very abusive father.

 

[Iacchus]

No it's not a waste. I don't have to believe in a next life in order to try to achieve whatever measure of happiness I can in the here and now. I don't feel that some higher purpose or an afterlife is necessary in order to enjoy my time on this Earth. In fact, I look at it this way: My time on this Earth is the only time that I KNOW that I have, spending any of it pursuing an afterlife that seems unlikely to me to even exist does not contribute to making that limited time better for myself or my children. Therefore it is a waste of a resource (time) that I can never get back.

Then you agree, it does seem like a big waste (of time) to have it end.

I don't know that it isn't a lot like school. I don't know that it is like school either. I see no reason to think that it is, though, so I see no reason to treat it as such. You're whole question assumes the existence of a God, and that's a BIG assumption

And yet there's nothing about the experience of living that doesn't teach us anything, right?

 

[neutrino_cannon]

Then you agree, it does seem like a big waste (of time) to have it end.


And yet there's nothing about the experience of living that doesn't teach us anything, right?

So what if it ends, it isn't wasted. All things are transitory, and eternal life would be unbearable after a point, see the imortal's paradox.

It may not be perfect as it is now, but there's no reason to wish it is different. It's of equal (non)use to posit on all the unverifyable and ulikely alternate possibilities.

 

[Iacchus]

Man, if God really wanted me to know the ins and outs of Unix programming: a) He could have found a better way than making me work for these asshats... b) I'm going to be sorely disappointed with the network in Heaven. They should at least be one step ahead of us.

But hey, it's good to know God uses Unix.

Something tells me you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Ralph]

Stop worrying about the meaning of life. You'll enjoy it more.

Non existence---then x # years of life---then non-existence again.
I'd like more than the allotted 70-80 years ........but it's better than nothing.

I see people (quite a few of them on the Rap.Ready board in fact)
who are so focused on some real or imagined future event--they are missing out on what life has to offer.

Make the most of whatever time you have & stop worrying about it's "meaning"...................