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David Limbaugh

Regnad Kcin

Penultimate Amazing
Regnad Kcin
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
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The Last Open Road
David Limbaugh said:
[Federal hate crime legislation is part of] the relentless effort of radical homosexual activists to validate their lifestyle.
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So apparently mom dropped two babies on their heads? What are the odds?
 
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It's really unfortunate that so many people hold conservative views in such disdain that they can only accept them as coming from people who are idiots, or were dropped on their heads, or are evil and manipulating people, and so on. I guess it just seems impossible that anyone sane and reasonably intelligent (and not having brain damage) could possibly hold such views. It's really unfortunate because we will never see any kind of unity or coming to terms under such circumstances. There is no middle ground. It's just ridicule, all the time. Day after day. That's the most common tactic I see here, and pretty much everywhere, by people on the left, when discussing conservative practices and beliefs. Ridicule. Pure ridicule. And outright loathing by some.

I don't think what he said was very nice, but it was hardly an unreasonable position or belief to take. Is it really hard to believe that some who are gay may really be seeking to validate their lifestyles? Not all, but some? Is it not psychological feasible? Do not people who engage in behavior that is looked down upon, rightly or wrongly, often try to validate their behavior? Is this not a psychological fact of humans?

Look at the threads on discussion of software piracy, and watch the people bend over backwards to rationalize and explain how they aren't doing anything wrong. They justify what they do. They seek to validate their belief that they aren't doing anything wrong. I figured this kind of thing was human nature, for some. I don't see why the suggestion that some homosexual people want to find validation is so ridiculous. People rationalize and seek justifcation and validation for themselves all day, every day, in all areas of life. I don't see why this is any different.
 
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There are those times when David Limbaugh makes a world of sense. They aren't often, but they do occur. And then, there are the times when he says things like this.

Sorry, I am not gay, but I'll be damned if I'll sit around and say nothing as he spews this kind of thing.
 
It's opinions like this that led me to leave both the GOP and political conservatism in general. While you can certainly make a rational case against "Hate Crimes" laws, the notion that it's part of a conspiracy by homosexuals to achieve (shudder, gasp) social acceptance should embarrass anyone with any reasoning capability, regardless of ideology or party affiliation.

Sadly, American conservativism abandoned any vestiges of intellectualism when it decided to become a populist movement, drunk on religion and nationalism, and started letting blowhards like the Limbaughs speak for them.
 
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Mark A. Siefert said:
It's opinions like this that led me to leave both the GOP and political conservatism in general. While you can certainly make a rational case against "Hate Crimes" laws, the notion that it's part of a conspiracy by homosexuals to achieve (shudder, gasp) social acceptance should embarrass anyone with any reasoning capability, regardless of ideology or party affiliation.
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Really? I mean, I don't think it's a conspiracy. I'm just saying that I could see how some homosexuals could be driven by that psychological motivation.. to validate.

I don't want to really take up for the guy here, I'm not trying to say he's 100% right. I just keep getting floored by how it's just handwaved as ludicrous and embarassing. I find that to be odd. And it's something that continually bothers me here. That people on the other side (from me) often just handwave and ridicule and write off such things as stupid and ignorant without actually getting into the substance of it at all. It's just plain stupid, and unworthy of further discussion I guess? Why is there no room for discussion on some topics? Especially sacred cows such as this?
 
Whiplash said:
Really? I mean, I don't think it's a conspiracy. I'm just saying that I could see how some homosexuals could be driven by that psychological motivation.. to validate.
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So? What the frack do "Hate Crimes" laws have anything to do about a homosexual's desire for social acceptance? It's a non-sequitur.

The way I read this, he's not upset about Hate Crimes statutes so much as he is about homosexuals. If your object is to oppose Hate Crimes laws, why bring up gays at all?
 
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I dunno - I don't think its fair to say that someone who would mock that statement mocks conservatives in general.

I would take great pleasure in mocking it - and I think mocking sometimes serves a useful function. Some ideas invite it.

This is one of them.

There are plenty of conservative views out there - and not all of them are idiots. I'm a Canadian lefty yet even a homo-huggin' pinko commie like me can recognize articulate conservative viewpoints as valid even while I may disagree here and there. I do not feel the urge to mock when confronted with something with a little more meat to it. Buckley, Douthat, that old bald guy with glasses on CNN - i subscribe to conservative magazines and even borrowed my grandpa's Commentary reader.

I'm not sure what there is to praise in Limbaugh's quote. To me, Whiplash's reaction to the mocking sounds very PC to me - all viewpoints are equal and we should all step lightly around each other to avoid offense.

Sure, Limbaugh''s entitled to his viewpoint. I don't understand why we are not entitled to mock him. All ideas are surely not created equal.
 
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Whiplash said:
It's really unfortunate that so many people hold conservative views in such disdain that they can only accept them as coming from people who are idiots, or were dropped on their heads, or are evil and manipulating people, and so on. I guess it just seems impossible that anyone sane and reasonably intelligent (and not having brain damage) could possibly hold such views. It's really unfortunate because we will never see any kind of unity or coming to terms under such circumstances. There is no middle ground. It's just ridicule, all the time. Day after day. That's the most common tactic I see here, and pretty much everywhere, by people on the left, when discussing conservative practices and beliefs. Ridicule. Pure ridicule. And outright loathing by some.
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Okay, let me see here. You are quacking about our bashing two vapid twits who say dumb stuff on a regular basis and get paid more than they deserve for it.

Is there a maladaptive behavior here on our part?

Better to mock a fat deaf eunuch who nearly destroyed himself with drugs and degenerate life style than to mock an unemployed auto worker as a loser.

Conservatives get and deserve no sympathy from rational people when they get criticized for trhe dumb stuff they say.
 
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leftysergeant said:
Okay, let me see here. You are quacking about our bashing two vapid twits who say dumb stuff on a regular basis and get paid more than they deserve for it.

Is there a maladaptive behavior here on our part?

Better to mock a fat deaf eunuch who nearly destroyed himself with drugs and degenerate life style than to mock an unemployed auto worker as a loser.

Conservatives get and deserve no sympathy from rational people when they get criticized for trhe dumb stuff they say.
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It's a small quibble, but...

Considering people are willing to pay to listen to both of the Limbaughs, it's hard to say they're "overpaid." I wouldn't give them bus fare to Hell, but that's me. I also don't think anyone deserves much sympathy when they shoot their mouths off and say stupid things, regardless of their political affiliation.

Having said that, I'm simply dumbfounded that Conservatives seem to think spewing the kind of vitriol they are these days will accomplish a damned thing. The evidence shows they're having precisely the opposite effect. Add to this their more recent past, and a bit of the more distant, (look, Newt, if you didn't want the M&Ms with peanuts when you flew with President Clinton, all you had to do was say so...), and you can't help but wonder how the hell they ever got a majority in the first place.

I'd like to think these people would recognize they're making fools of themselves, and the policies they're advocating are ultimately destructive. They seem incapable of either, and that's sad, because we need a loyal opposition in this nation on both sides of the aisle. Unfortunately, they seem hell bent on being something far different. And when you have a president that basically whallopped John McCain, it's pretty stupid to open your radio program right after Inauguration Day saying, "I hope he fails." (Wow. That's clever as hell!)

Sorry. I don't think the Limbaughs are worth my time, particularly as I'm sitting here about to lose my frigging house.
 
Whiplash said:
It's really unfortunate that so many people hold conservative views in such disdain that they can only accept them as coming from people who are idiots, or were dropped on their heads, or are evil and manipulating people, and so on. I guess it just seems impossible that anyone sane and reasonably intelligent (and not having brain damage) could possibly hold such views. It's really unfortunate because we will never see any kind of unity or coming to terms under such circumstances. There is no middle ground. It's just ridicule, all the time. Day after day. That's the most common tactic I see here, and pretty much everywhere, by people on the left, when discussing conservative practices and beliefs. Ridicule. Pure ridicule. And outright loathing by some.

I don't think what he said was very nice, but it was hardly an unreasonable position or belief to take. Is it really hard to believe that some who are gay may really be seeking to validate their lifestyles? Not all, but some? Is it not psychological feasible? Do not people who engage in behavior that is looked down upon, rightly or wrongly, often try to validate their behavior? Is this not a psychological fact of humans?

Look at the threads on discussion of software piracy, and watch the people bend over backwards to rationalize and explain how they aren't doing anything wrong. They justify what they do. They seek to validate their belief that they aren't doing anything wrong. I figured this kind of thing was human nature, for some. I don't see why the suggestion that some homosexual people want to find validation is so ridiculous. People rationalize and seek justifcation and validation for themselves all day, every day, in all areas of life. I don't see why this is any different.
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There is no shame in casting aside bipartisanship when one side of the debate is not having a debate, but engaging in demagoguery to support harmful bigotry. I think hateful and/or stupid people are the only ones against gay marriage because the only arguments against it are hateful and stupid.

I laugh at them because they are wrong.
 
Whiplash said:
I don't think what he said was very nice, but it was hardly an unreasonable position or belief to take. Is it really hard to believe that some who are gay may really be seeking to validate their lifestyles? Not all, but some? Is it not psychological feasible? Do not people who engage in behavior that is looked down upon, rightly or wrongly, often try to validate their behavior? Is this not a psychological fact of humans?
Click to expand...


Let's look at the comment again:
David Limbaugh said:
[Federal hate crime legislation is part of] the relentless effort of radical homosexual activists to validate their lifestyle.
Click to expand...
Do you honestly believe that this is a reasonable assessment of the what is going on? "radical homosexual activists" trying to "validate their lifestyle"?

Does Limbaugh know any gay people? If not, he's talking out his backside. If so, he may, in fact, be brain damaged, or he is intentionally fanning the flames of anti-gay hysteria.

The only people who need to "validate their lifestyle" would be those who think something is wrong with it. Of those involved, guess who is probably the one who think there is something wrong with the gay lifestyle?

Yes, some opinions deserve a little ridicule.
 
Incidently, Whiplash, in your endless persuit to make political debate on this board more civil and substantive, I look forward to your posts chastizing those posters who call Obama a socialist, communist, or a fachist.

I'm just sure it will be any day now, right?
 
Whiplash said:
I don't think what he said was very nice, but it was hardly an unreasonable position or belief to take. Is it really hard to believe that some who are gay may really be seeking to validate their lifestyles? Not all, but some? Is it not psychological feasible? Do not people who engage in behavior that is looked down upon, rightly or wrongly, often try to validate their behavior? Is this not a psychological fact of humans?
Click to expand...

I don't need to validate my sexual preferance to anyone.[/anecdote]

That being said, it is not an unreasonable position. It is unreasonable to assume that gays are attempting to pass hate crime laws to force people to recognize their validity.
 
I will retract what I had to say with regards to the homosexuals seeking to validate themselves. I didn't really want to get into that, and I was wrong and didn't think it through well enough.

My comments were more motivated by the dismissal of Limbaugh as someone who was dropped on his head for stating that opinion. It's more about, as Upchurch points out, that I really dislike the antagonistic and uncivil exchanges here, and I felt the OP was along those lines.

I apologize, and Upchruch.. I don't know what to tell you.. who exactly are you refering to with the talk of Obama being a fascist,etc? I don't read every single politics thread, and the few people I have seen make such comments, like BAC, are people that I think are kooks too, and I don't give them any of my time. I felt it was pretty much given that they were kooks. I'll say right now that anyone who calls Obama a communist or a fascist is wrong. However, it's a far, far cry from calling tax protesters "tea baggers". Got similar examples of such vulgarity from right wing posters?

Would you really like me to go and search for Obama Fascist and go in and personally chastise them all? Or are you more likely trying to acuse me of hypocrisy here in only chastising people on the left? I know for certain I have, a few times, said that I thought people on my side were going over the line. Cicero for one. I don't remember specifically what he was saying, I think it was about Ted Kennedy. And I remember stating that I felt the opinion that Obama was breaking his tax promises when cigarette taxes went up was a big stretch. (yes I complained about the prices, but I am certain I said that I thought that those making that leap were reaching).

Honestly, I have been bending over backwards to be reasonable and moderate in the past couple of months. I came in here very hot but I'm trying to be calm, and certainly not insulting or pompous. I try to stick to the subject, and try to avoid ridicule and sarcasm as means of making my point. And yet, alot of good it does me, that some people still treat me with great disrepect.

But frankly, and I'm sorry if this disturbs you, I see alot more venom from people on the left, towards people on the right, than the other way around. Usually in an unwarranted manner. (ie, they were the first to become nasty). I'm sorry if you do not see that. But I feel it every time I read these forums. I will admit it may be partially my own biases getting in the way. But it's not just these forums. It's something I've experienced everywhere I've gone since about 2000. Every forum, or public gatherings.. You say you are conservative, or supported Bush, and people immediately dislike you, ridicule you, insult you as an ignorant bufoon, no longer want to be your friends, etc. This absolutely did happen to me, many times, whether you want to believe it or not. I lost many good friends on usenet in the aftermath of the 2000 elections.

It's like there is an attitude that there is absolutely nothing worthy of any value from anyone on the right, period. Only worthy of disdain and scorn. As if they are just sooo wrong and soo evil that it's not even worth basic dignity and respect anymore. There is no civil discourse. Just contempt.

I'm sorry but that is what I feel from many on the left.

For what it's worth, I'll try to be more vigilant about taking on people on my own side who cross the line. There was never any intent to be biased there. I mean, can you give me names of people besides BAC who often act in similar rude and vulgar ways? I see very few people over all that are openly conservative, and most of them seem very tame most of the time. Texas and Cicero come to mind as examples. I see them use sarcasm and so forth, but I rarely see them openly disdain and scorn liberals or democrats as if they are not even worthy of recognition, let alone respect. I see that kind of attitude alot from many other people here on the left though. Many.

And why does everything always have to ultimately come down to "your side does it too" or "your side does it first" or "you aren't being consistent in applying your beliefs to those you dislike" and so forth. It really irriates me that politics always comes down to this. It doesn't matter if one side does something too, or if some on my side or your side are hypocrites. Wrong is wrong. Imature, hateful and contemptuous comments are wrong by anyone, to anyone else. My failure to apply it to someone else is irrelevant to whether I was right or wrong where I did apply it.

We need to stop thinking that going to the old standby of "both sides do it" and similar arguments actually mean anything in the big picture.
 
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