Cryptozoologist Fail

[Dinwar]

Not the usual way this time. Apparently, a large black panther has been confirmed in southern Ohio (no links--got this from residents). They have footprints, scat, and photographs, confirmed by local zoologists. The current assumption is that someone had it as a pet, and when they realized they were keeping a species that's eaten humans as a pet they released it.

It highlights one of the things that's always baffled me about cryptozoology, alternative medicine, Creationism, and most other woo: while they're very good at trying to poke holes in the current paradigm, they're horrible at making any real advances. I mean, this story should have had cryptozoologists all over it. There were dogs disappearing at night, strange animal sightings, a large, elusive predator, everything they could want--and they would have been right, in that there actually WAS an animal that no one could have possibly expected to be there (large cats haven't existed in Ohio since the end of the Pleistocene at the latest). Yet it wasn't cryptozoologists who found it, but scientists working with scientific data.

There are two ways to fail in zoology: you can say something exists where it in fact does not, and you can say something doesn't exist where it does. Cryptozoology does both.

 

[William Parcher]

Apparently, a large black panther has been confirmed in southern Ohio (no links--got this from residents). They have footprints, scat, and photographs, confirmed by local zoologists.

I'm seeing news reports of sightings but nothing more than that. They are already calling it a black leopard before it has been confirmed to be one.

Black leopard sightings still being reported

HARRISON TWP., Montgomery County — A black leopard that has been roaming the area was sighted two more times this week, according to law enforcement officials and a resident.

 

[Dinwar]

Hm. May need to dig into this a bit more. I filed this one under "Yeah, it's probably true", given the fact that I've seen some exotic pets in that area before, and the source (newspaper, if I recall correctly).

 

[William Parcher]

I filed this one under "Yeah, it's probably true"...

Given the history of "folks" reporting black panthers in America you really should file it under "Yeah, probably not true"... until it is officially confirmed.

 

[Dinwar]

I was told it had been officially confirmed. I'll try to find out more tonight--I learned about it talking to my dad, and he learned about it via a newspaper I can't get (we live on opposite sides of the continent). That's why I even bothered to pay attention to it--without official confirmation, and particularly in this area (let's just say that the residents aren't exactly the best eye witnesses in the world--hillbilly doesn't quite cover it), I'd doubt them if they said the sky was blue. Like I said, I'll get more data when I talk to my family tonight.

 

[atpeace]

I was told it had been officially confirmed. I'll try to find out more tonight--I learned about it talking to my dad, and he learned about it via a newspaper I can't get (we live on opposite sides of the continent). That's why I even bothered to pay attention to it--without official confirmation, and particularly in this area (let's just say that the residents aren't exactly the best eye witnesses in the world--hillbilly doesn't quite cover it), I'd doubt them if they said the sky was blue. Like I said, I'll get more data when I talk to my family tonight.

Ouch! What is your opinion of locals when you cross the border into "western" Virginia. lol

bolding mine, ap

 

[Dinwar]

It was the story of the woman towing a lawnmower deck with a golf cart and drinking from the built-in keg that swayed my opinion the most.

 

[atpeace]

It was the story of the woman towing a lawnmower deck with a golf cart and drinking from the built-in keg that swayed my opinion the most.

I ~vaguely~ remember a few Bostonian frat brothers trying that too! We They tried a lot of things Don't know that it's geographical, more chemical????

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/black-leopard-sightings-still-being-reported-1243913.html

Still unconfirmed.

 

[William Parcher]

Googling reveals that "folks" in Ohio and Appalachia have a long standing history of claiming to see big black cats (always meaning a species other than housecat). Many of them are more specific and say that they have seen black cougars which aren't even known to exist at all. Interestingly, there are also folk claims that government or other authorities have confirmed these sightings to actually be big black cats (such as melanistic leopards). But, in reality, there have been no such official confirmations.

As it is with Bigfoot, this is a cultural phenomenon.

 

[atpeace]

Googling reveals that "folks" in Ohio and Appalachia have a long standing history of claiming to see big black cats (always meaning a species other than housecat). Many of them are more specific and say that they have seen black cougars which aren't even known to exist at all. Interestingly, there are also folk claims that government or other authorities have confirmed these sightings to actually be big black cats (such as melanistic leopards). But, in reality, there have been no such official confirmations.

As it is with Bigfoot, this is a cultural phenomenon.

What culture exactly is shared throughout the large swath that is Appalachia? I thought a study recently quoted on a JREF thread said BF believers tend to be educated men. Do the former footers on JREF fit into that culture? I wonder.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

The current assumption is that someone had it as a pet, and when they realized they were keeping a species that's eaten humans as a pet they released it.

Yep. It's dangerous all right. Let's set it free.

 

[clayflingythingy]

(large cats haven't existed in Ohio since the end of the Pleistocene at the latest)

You don't consider the cougar/mountain lion/puma to be a big cat?

I have met a number of eastern Ky residents who will state, matter of factly, that mountain lions exist in the mountains. I've never ran across someone claiming a black panther. But I live in central KY and am not well aquainted with all the folklore of Appalachia.

I have wondered in the past if the mountain lion claims were folklore or people not knowing the difference between an bobcat and mountain lion.

 

[Bikewer]

For years, Missouri wildlife folks declared that there were no cougars in the state, despite numerous reports from back-country resident of sightings.
Then, the extensive flooding in the state a few years ago drove cats out of their hiding places and within weeks we had photographs, film....
And embarrassed wildlife authorities.

 

[William Parcher]

For years, Missouri wildlife folks declared that there were no cougars in the state, despite numerous reports from back-country resident of sightings. Then, the extensive flooding in the state a few years ago drove cats out of their hiding places and within weeks we had photographs, film.... And embarrassed wildlife authorities.

Whaaa? The State of Missouri has a good number of documented confirmed sightings since 1994. I don't see government denial - in fact it's the opposite. They were embarrassed? Sounds like another "folk" interpretation.

Missouri Department of Conservation - Confirmed Cougar Sightings

December 1994 — Carter County
November 1996 — Reynolds County
January 1997 — Christian County
January 1999 — Texas County
December 2000 — Lewis County
December 2001 — Pulaski County
October 2002 — Clay County
August 2003 — Callaway County
November 2006 — Shannon County
December 2006 — Livingston County
November 2010 — Platte County
December 2010 — Linn County
January 2011 — Ray County
January 2011 — St. Louis County
January 2011 — Macon County
March 2011 — Oregon County
May 2011 — Macon County
July 2011 — Shannon County
August 2011 — Oregon County

 

[Marduk]

I mean, this story should have had cryptozoologists all over it..

cryptozoology doesn't usually cover single animals unless theres a breeding population involved
a single escaped pet is unlikely to excite cryptozoologists much
when they start turning up, thats the time to start worrying

 

[atpeace]

Googling reveals that "folks" in Ohio and Appalachia have a long standing history of claiming to see big black cats (always meaning a species other than housecat). Many of them are more specific and say that they have seen black cougars which aren't even known to exist at all. Interestingly, there are also folk claims that government or other authorities have confirmed these sightings to actually be big black cats (such as melanistic leopards). But, in reality, there have been no such official confirmations.

As it is with Bigfoot, this is a cultural phenomenon.

I am still curious as to this "cultural phenomenon" from north to south that is Appalachia and results in said occupants propensity for specific sightings?

If I have understood you correctly and bigfoot is also a cultural phenomenon could you please describe the culture? Do you believe there is more than one type of culture that supports the bigfoot phenomenon?

For me, it boils down to liars and victims, for the most part. A phenomenon that is not cultural or geographical but occurs every minute of every day to all types of people regardless of any other characteristic than being human. And the liars will make use of whatever is usable, say, the geography (woods), money, one’s health, or whatever.

One area has bigfoot folklore, another geographical area ghost folklore, another water cryptid folklore. Another area can’t support a bigfoot or a Nessie but has conmen, scammers, identity thieves, and panhandlers ready with a sad lie to tell, or con to play, etc. What are the cultural differences between the liar and the victim in each situation?

 

[William Parcher]

I am still curious as to this "cultural phenomenon" from north to south that is Appalachia and results in said occupants propensity for specific sightings If I have understood you correctly and bigfoot is also a cultural phenomenon could you please describe the culture? Do you believe there is more than one type of culture that supports the bigfoot phenomenon?

I'm not sure that I can answer if you are asking for specifics. Though big black cat sightings (panther and black cougar) have come from all over, there seems to be a propensity of them in the East and they might be most common from Appalachia. The claim of seeing a black cougar seems to be mostly limited to the East. Maybe it's "hillbilly culture".

One area has bigfoot folklore, another geographical area ghost folklore, another water cryptid folklore.

There you go... and some areas seem to have big black cat folklore. It exists in the Eastern USA, UK and Australia. One difference I have noticed is that the UK claimants sometimes produce photos or video (always showing black housecats) whereas the American claimants don't. You get stories but no pictures.

 

[Cainkane1]

Not the usual way this time. Apparently, a large black panther has been confirmed in southern Ohio (no links--got this from residents). They have footprints, scat, and photographs, confirmed by local zoologists. The current assumption is that someone had it as a pet, and when they realized they were keeping a species that's eaten humans as a pet they released it.

It highlights one of the things that's always baffled me about cryptozoology, alternative medicine, Creationism, and most other woo: while they're very good at trying to poke holes in the current paradigm, they're horrible at making any real advances. I mean, this story should have had cryptozoologists all over it. There were dogs disappearing at night, strange animal sightings, a large, elusive predator, everything they could want--and they would have been right, in that there actually WAS an animal that no one could have possibly expected to be there (large cats haven't existed in Ohio since the end of the Pleistocene at the latest). Yet it wasn't cryptozoologists who found it, but scientists working with scientific data.

There are two ways to fail in zoology: you can say something exists where it in fact does not, and you can say something doesn't exist where it does. Cryptozoology does both.

If you watch "Destination Truth" you'll soon see that every exotic animal they've ever searched for never existed. No yetis, no mongolian death worm, no giant surviving Moa nothing.

 

[Dinwar]

I forgot about the bobcats. So there ARE big cats in Ohio, just not many.

Sadly, the conversation with my father the other night did not include details on the find. Some family issues took precedence. I'm still trying to get the details.

For me, it boils down to liars and victims, for the most part.

I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. I mean, there are genuinely weird things in wild places. I'm not talking bigfoot or anything like that, I'm just saying that it's easy to see something you're not familiar with. You have a beer with a friend and talk to him about it and he says "Hey, that sounds like bigfoot!" Suddenly the headlines are "Local Hunter Sees Wood-Ape, Lives to Tell the Tale". I've seen enough poor science reporting to know that lying is not necessary for a bad story to end up in the news.