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Cryptocurrencies and the economy

psionl0 said:
Of course you would argue about that - just like you ague about everything I post.
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Seriously, do you want me to post the conversation? It started with a comment of mine, then a snarky reply by you, then a short bit about the morality of business, which you conveniently then sidestepped, and now you're "I know you are but what am I?"-sing the conversation. Very mature.

There was nothing wrong with pointing out that bitcoin mining is profitable
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And there was nothing wrong in pointing out that your silly "fix" implied that they were mutually exclusive when nothing of the sort was true.
 
Belz... said:
And there was nothing wrong in pointing out that your silly "fix" implied that they were mutually exclusive when nothing of the sort was true.
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Since you implied that there was no reason to expend that much electricity to mine for bitcoins, a correction was in order. Move on.
 
psionl0 said:
There is no fabrication. You totally omitted profit from your post. It is now fixed.
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I also omitted losses. Yeah, because it wasn't what I was talking about at all. I also wasn't talking about electricity as you claim. I was talking about generating currency with computing, which is exactly what I wrote. Hence the total fabrication on your part.

In other words you made no effort to understand what I wrote, imagined that I meant something else, and responded with something completely unrelated either way.

I hope there's a prize for you, because that's quite an accomplishment.
 
You win. "Insane" doesn't mean massive electricity consumption (though I wonder why anybody would care if a computer was "running like crazy" if it weren't for the electricity consumption). "Insane" doesn't mean unprofitable. "Insane" doesn't mean anything at all.
 
psionl0 said:
You win.
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Of course. You picked the losing horse from the start.

"Insane" doesn't mean massive electricity consumption
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No, it doesn't. Although said consumption is also a problem, that isn't what I was refering to. I was refering to the model of generating currency, as I literally stated in the post.

"Insane" doesn't mean unprofitable. "Insane" doesn't mean anything at all.
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It certainly does not mean "unprofitable" since cryptos have been demonstratably profitable to several people.

The problem lies entirely within your inability to understand simple English.
 
psionl0 said:
Of course you would argue about that - just like you ague about everything I post. :rolleyes:

There was nothing wrong with pointing out that bitcoin mining is profitable in spite of the electricity consumption but you are so angry that I was the one to point it out that you haven't stopped attacking me since.
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Maybe move this discussion to the bitcoin thread?

I suspect it is only profitable if you're not the last one to buy it before the inevitable crash. Slavery was profitable too, for a while.
 
What seems to be beyond dispute is that the current way that some cryptocurrencies are operating is accelerating global warming and I think that it's time for governments to take action to put an end to it if the currencies themselves don't clean up their act. It is having negative externalities that are harming everybody, even if it is profitable for a few individuals.
 
Puppycow said:
What seems to be beyond dispute is that the current way that some cryptocurrencies are operating is accelerating global warming and I think that it's time for governments to take action to put an end to it if the currencies themselves don't clean up their act. It is having negative externalities that are harming everybody, even if it is profitable for a few individuals.
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Oh, so you just described every activity that uses the electrical grid.
 
Puppycow said:
I suspect it is only profitable if you're not the last one to buy it before the inevitable crash.
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Don't conflate mining for bitcoins with trading bitcoins (or any other crypto).

In the former case, it is just a simple case of whether at the current price you could get if you sold the cryptos, the revenue obtained was greater than the cost of the mining or not.

In the latter case, you are buying cryptos in the hope that the price will rise in the future or shorting them in the hope that the price will fall. You are not taking any part in the production of the cryptos.

Puppycow said:
What seems to be beyond dispute is that the current way that some cryptocurrencies are operating is accelerating global warming and I think that it's time for governments to take action to put an end to it if the currencies themselves don't clean up their act. It is having negative externalities that are harming everybody, even if it is profitable for a few individuals.
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Even if some governments were inclined to ban mining (and they aren't), there are too many places in the world where you can mine with impunity.
 
Belz... said:
Well that raises a question. How much can one expect to mine in BTC these days? I mean, in terms of USD, for instance?
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The current generation rate is 6.25 BTC per block. On 11 March 2024 this rate will halve to 3.125 BTC per block. At current prices, this is in excess of 300,000 USD per block. Of course, an individual miner might take hours/days/weeks or more to mine a block on average. Whether they can profit from this depends (among other things) on how much electricity they have to use and the price of the electricity.

But surely this is ancient information for you?
 
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psionl0 said:
Even if some governments were inclined to ban mining (and they aren't), there are too many places in the world where you can mine with impunity.
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A few countries could do it if they agreed to. China would probably have to be one of those countries. It would be an easy way for them to cut their greenhouse emissions. If you make mining unprofitable, that would be one way. Find out who is doing it and seize their equipment.

I'm not opposed to cryptocurrencies in principle if they switch to an eco-friendly model that doesn't require huge amounts of electricity to run. Of course, governments would have to be smart enough to know which ones to go after and which ones can be allowed to continue.
 
psionl0 said:
The current generation rate is 6.25 BTC per block. On 11 March 2024 this rate will halve to 3.125 BTC per block. At current prices, this is in excess of 300,000 USD per block. Of course, an individual miner might take hours/days/weeks or more to mine a block on average. Whether they can profit from this depends (among other things) on how much electricity they have to use and the price of the electricity.
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My question was how much can someone expect to mine, these days. You have not answered that.

But surely this is ancient information for you?
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When I ask a question it's because I want to know the answer. What other motives you may imagine is not my concern.
 
psionl0 said:
Labeling something "flawed" without the slightest hint of a justification is worthless. If cryptos were a "flawed" concept then they would have died out decades ago.
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Hard for them to "die out" when they never worked in the first place. From the start they were a bad design that attempted to fix problems that didn't exist and would would have been a huge step backwards from the monetary systems that already exist.
 
Puppycow said:
Maybe move this discussion to the bitcoin thread?
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While we are at it maybe move the bitcoin thread to the gaming and entertainment forum. Casino games are really the best model for what bitcoin and other crypto currencies are at this point. They certainly are not relevant to finance or economic matters.
 
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