Crop Circles in Ohio

Iamme said:
..."all sorts of things unexplained" (My post addressed to nobody in particular.)

Loch Ness Monster,

Not found after intensive research....

Bermuda Triangle,

Thoroughly debunked.....

Bigfoot/Sasquatch,

Which faker admitted to creating.......

ghosts, aliens,

Still not one documented case ......

crop circles,

Debunked as anything but human creations..........

telepathy, telekenisis,

Still no documented cases ......

psychic/mediumship,

No documented cases .......

magnetic healing,

Debunked ......

parrots that that have telepathy,

Debunked ......

OBE's/NDE's,

Showed to have natural explanations .......

Jesus/miracles,

Pure religion ......

prayer/healings/faith healings--statistics showing prayed for people heal faster..

All debunked ......

hmmm, what else is there?

Lessee: Homeopathy, Yoga, cattle mutilations, area (I forget number), Marfa lights, pyramid power, Rosswell, moon hoax, ...... the list is almost endless :rolleyes:

There are all these 'experts' out there that have studied all of the listed, and some of the experts claim all of these things are real or could be real...while others debunk the stuff...each and every one of them. They could all be real, all fake, one real, with the rest fake, etc.

But whenever consise tests or investigation methods are used, they invariably show nothing supernatural goes on.

Hmmm..why are there hyraglyphics (sp.) on cave walls that show what appear to be spacemen in space suits?, or hovering vehicles?

Or something else, possibilities for intpretations are endless....

There is a 'force' that is toying with our minds.

No.

It is the same 'force' that knew it would boggle reputed brainy people into trying to solve ....how can you have a finite circle circumference, with a finite diameter, and yet the formula (pi) which ratio formula between the two, is not a finite exact number be used to find the finite circumference???

How is that supposed to be a mystery?

Or, how is it that everything in the universe appears to come out of infinity, but yet wind up visibly as being finite????

Ehhh? Meaning what?

(example: Take a leaf on a tree. It is finite. It's edges are defined and end at the air around it. Yet, if you peer into the leave through a microscope, you will never find the center of the leave,

Of course you can define a center for a leaf, if you choose to do so. What are you getting at?

I don't think.

I think you are right there.

You will get to a point where you start splitting and splitting the makeup of an atom, a quark, a neutrino, till infinitim...maybe.

The mysteries of life are a blessing and a curse, at the same time. They are here, for our entertainment only. For all we know, all of life might be a 'reality' that doesn't even exist.

:rolleyes:
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Hans
 
Ratman_tf said:


Interesting.

I believe in things that are unexplained as well. There is a small number (I believe 5%, don't quote me here) of UFO reports that remain unexplained. I don't think this even approaches the possibility that they are extraterrestrial spacecraft. I just accept that there's going to be things out there that no one can explain because of various circumstances. (Lack of data, poor reports, blurry photos.)

Or by "belief" do you indeed mean that you consider the unexplained residue of some paranormal claims might be truly unusual stuff? (Ghosts, psychics, aliens, etc, whatever...)
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Definitely the former. There is a tremendous temptation, when faced with things unexplained, to assign extraordinary possibilities to myriad phenomena. I don't put a lot of emphasis on the woprd unexplained. People use it as evidence of things being unexplainable. I have found that it is far from an extraordinary event for me not to know or understand something. For instance, something hit my car while I was driving on the freeway. As I moved along at 65 mph I saw that the object was smaller than a bread box and grey in colour. That is all I know about it other than the fact that it was hard enough to demolish my head light when it collided with it at some speed higher than 65 mph. It was a ufo! I believe whole heartedly in the existence of this ufo but I do not think that there is anything extraterrestrial or super natural about the event or the object. Still, the event falls into the category of unexplained.

Glory
 
When the crop circle thing started to become popularized, I noticed that of amongst all the chit-chat, one thing was noticeably absent--eyewitness accounts of crop circles forming. Surely someone somewhere had to see them forming, so this might provide clues to their origins (if indeed it was some sort of natural phenomenon). During one documentary, they introduced man who had supposedly witnessed the forming of a circle. "Finally," I thought. I waited with bated breath for his explanation. He started, "I knew something was wrong with the time continuum that day, because the shadows of those two trees were converging . . ." :mad: I nearly threw a shoe at the television! The first supposed eyewitness, and the guy's a nutbasket. I should have known. It was then I knew there were never going to be any witnesses because these things just didn't happen spontaneously (and they weren't being made by aliens).

There was one documentary by National Geographic in which they made a rather bold statement. They stated in no uncertain terms that they would have the mystery solved within a year. And they did.
 
arcticpenguin said:
They don't even name that "independent crop-circle investigator"? What a sorry excuse for journalism. We need to know on whom to heap ridicule.
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It's me! juryjone, independent crop-circle investigator! (Imagine me standing in that Superman, truth-justice-and-the-american-way stance.)

Kinda like "Encyclopedia Brown, Boy Genius" or "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute".
 
RonSceptic said:
People still believe crop circles are made by aliens?

There is no hope for mankind.

:cry:
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Oh, that's not the worst bit. There were real scientists who were so desperate to prove that these things were not made by aliens, that they spent months busting a gut trying to prove they were made by vertical whirlwinds and the like.

I'd believe in aliens with little green horns sooner than I'd credit some of the hypotheses they came up with. Nothing was dafter than the idea that these patterns weren't the work of an intelligence.

I just thought, here we are on Earth, which is the intelligent species most likely to have made them?

Rolfe.
 
RonSceptic said:
People still believe crop circles are made by aliens?

There is no hope for mankind.

:cry:
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That's the press's fault, not the people themselves. Think about it:

  • People are exposed to supernatural theories for the origins of the crop circles.
  • They are saturated with the "fact" that science has "not been able" to explain them.
  • They are told repeatedly that the circles contain properties which make it "impossible" that they could've been made by "ordinary" humans.

Having no access to any counterarguments (when was the last time you saw a show debunking crop circles, and how publicized was it?), people naturally accept the alien conclusion because of the evidence they're exposed to. The lack of skeptical counterclaims provide the illusion that the alien hypothesis is the strongest. And many of these people are quite intelligent; they just don't care enough to go out and do the research themselves...and why should they? After all, the same people who expound the alien theory also assert that "they've always been here" with an attitude of nonchalance, transforming what (if true) should be an amazing, exciting, and profound discovery into a ho-hum "we knew all the time" minor circus attraction. So many believe, yet at the same time really don't care.

The key is not to lament on how "stupid" people are for not considering evidence they have no access to, but rather to provide that access. There needs to be more debunking on TV. It's the only way to reach them.
 
Rolfe said:

I just thought, here we are on Earth, which is the intelligent species most likely to have made them?

Rolfe.
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Ooh, ooh, a riddle! Um... I guess we can rule out the dolphins in all case except 'seaweed circles'...

How about a hint?
 
Hans---You went through a lot of effort rebutting my post. I had the coutesy to read it all. But tell me this: CAN you get to the EXACT most center of the leaf, down to the most subatomic particle. That is what I'm getting at. The outer rim of the leaf stops at the atmosphere. But where does the makings of an atom stop. Maybe there isn't one. Maybe imatter gets smaller and smaller into infinitum, where, as once scientist has 'proven', that it finally spontaneosly appears out of nothingness.

Can I comment on the rest of your rebuttal? Not really, because I was questioning all the things I listed, myself. I am just not quite so sure that all these things HAVE been disproven, as you so claim. Who is it that claims Van Daniken doesn't know what he is talking about. Who's word speaks the truth?! For every person who disproves, there is somone else studying any of the listed things who thinks there just might be something to it. And a case in point: Joe Newman, from his 'Energy Machine' fame, had/has? something like 30 reputable Ph.D's in electo engineering and associated fields that stood behind his claims that his unbelievable machine which defies the laws of physics, actually works. They could be all wet. But for a layman like me, this poses great difficulty in having the truth assertained.
 
lamme,

Who is it that claims Van Daniken doesn't know what he is talking about.
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Sheesh...it's not that hard to find, you know : Von Daniken

But if you're really concerned about "who to believe" then just buy and read "Gold of the Gods". Then come back and say you think Von Daniken is anything other than a total fraud who lies whenever necessary.
 
Youngstown, Ohio.
I grew up there and then left.
Economic h***.
 
Joshua Korosi said:


That's the press's fault, not the people themselves. Think about it:

.......snip.......

The key is not to lament on how "stupid" people are for not considering evidence they have no access to, but rather to provide that access. There needs to be more debunking on TV. It's the only way to reach them.
Click to expand...

I agree with you up to a point. The TV companies and magazines deliberately peddle the exotic and the bizarre. The truth is less attractive, and therefore less commercial.

I have seen one or two excellent programs debunking crop circles and other paranormal claims, but even when some attempt is made to address some aspect of the paranormal, as in the recent UK program on mediumship which featured James Randi, there is far too much fence sitting.

The fact is that nothing of any merit has ever been proven in relation most paranormal claims, and yet the program makers seem reluctant to question such claims forcefully and seem more concerned not to alienate any section of their audienc by taking sides.

Yes, it is dissapointing. But on the other hand people must surely take some responsibility for their own gullability? Is it really asking too much for people to questions some of the outlandish notions that they get presented with? After all, as someone once tellingly remarked, we are ALL sceptics on a used car lot!
 
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