Crop Circle Question

[Phil]

By "complexity" what do you mean? Complexity of sounds or complexity of meaning? I'm assuming you mean the former as the latter would imply that humpbacks are more intelligent than humans, which I doubt.

It's fair to say then, that English has greater complexity of meaning, yet is not as complex to learn as Humpbacchaen?

I think the aliens would prefer a TEFL teacher to a THFL.

Most probably complexity of sound, as any meaning in any communication (whales, humans, or otherwise) would yet to be deciphered. An alien species, being advanced enough to look across the vastness of space, or perhaps somehow bridge the distance, would probably be looking for the most advanced system of communication, and barring any foreknowledge of meaning, would quite possibly look first for the most advanced from a structural standpoint.

I can't say for sure, because it's been a long time since I read about this stuff, and my brain is like swiss cheese. So there's a good possibility I'm mixing it all up. But if I recall, the structure of the rating system devised from using Information Theory, human speech is at about a 5 on the scale, I think, and whales' "speech" is at a 9.

I believe the rating system is based on the correlation of one "word" to others in a given communication set. For example in an English sentence, you'd look for how strong the correlation is of any given word to the others in that sentence. Of course in the case of whales, it would be the distinguishable sounds in the song and not words. And I have no idea what the criteria are for correlation.

I don't know. Someone with more knowledge of Information Theory and how it's been applied to the study of Communications could shine more light on it. I'm admittedly ignorant of it.

 

[bruto]

So you're saying that since we humans mimic "real" crop circles with our fake ones, a dialog has been established?

Sort of the same type of dialog humans have with parrots?

Precisely. Of course only a few people know the code. The government knows but of course they're suppressing it. Most of the other investigators have been eaten by reptoids.

 

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Sort of the same type of dialog humans have with parrots?

Excuse me, I'll have you know that I often enjoy a meaningful dialog with my parrot. I have been favoured with several thought provoking insights.

This insidious anti-parrot propaganda has to stop!

 

[logical muse]

Anyone got a link to this supposed complex whale language research?

I did a quick google and found woo!

Canadian biologist Peter Beamish argues that communication researchers err to focus all their attention on the signals themselves. Beamish offers a controversial theory known as Rhythm-Based Communication (RBC) that attempts to explain not only communication between cetaceans, but between all non-human species. RBC postulates that the actual sounds any animal produces are arbitrary to what is being communicated. Beamish writes that many species don’t need to produce audible sounds because, in his own words, there is nothing “para” about the so-called paranormal, and telepathy is the norm within nature. What matters most is the rhythm or the timing of animal calls.

Beamish offers an example to explain his theory. If whale A makes a sound, followed by a 15 second lapse, then another sound, followed by a 45 second lapse, it will usually prompt any whale B within earshot to lift its head above the water. The periods of silence are conveying the information that something is happening above the water's surface. RBC might be comprehended as the bio-acoustic analog to morse code, Beamish himself compare it, historically, with Quantum Theory, which he describes as a wildly innovative worldview offered to behavioral biologists in an attempt to explain problems in established theory that arise when the problem is confronted utilizing a dated “Newtonian” focus on signals, phonemes, and halfway languages. Like Lilly’s research thirty years earlier, today, Beamish’s approach remains largely discredited by mainstream biologists who apparently lack the imagination (and possibly the courage as well) to test it. We want to test it.

Wow. Telepathy is the norm within nature. Are we (us humans) not within nature?

I want my telepathy!

 

[Phil]

Anyone got a link to this supposed complex whale language research? . . .

Here's a couple:

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_richards_doyle_040422.html

http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=179096

 

[Luke T.]

Where Do Crop Circles Come From?

I think people always assume we are going to use a GPS and lasers, but in fact we just use this plank of wood which we call a "stalk stomper", we use that to flatten down the crop, and we use surveyors' tapes.

The genuine ones we think probably originate in the ionosphere, and the ionosphere is its lowest between 2 and 4 in the morning, and the Earth's magnetic field is its highest during those periods. Then we believe that the force travels down in a sort of vortical form with a huge density of electrons and positive ions, and then it will hit the ground with, again, this is calculation, probably hundreds of thousands of volts per meter, but just for a nanosecond, so the crop doesn't burn, it would if it was for longer.

You decide.


http://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=11/21/2005

Scroll down to "Crop circles of infamy" and click video link.

What I find truly fascinating about the video is its exploration of human nature. The female believer had devised all kinds of pseudo-scientific tests to demonstrate the paranormal nature of crop circles, which the video goes into. So when confronted with the question of crop circles all being man-made, she had a ready reply:

All I say is a very, very simple question. Okay, change the plating level in seeds. Change the levels of hormone activity. Change the brain activity. You know, if they could do all those things, and change the nitrate nitrogen content in the bottles in the water, if they can change the resonancy, if they can do all those things, well, okay. *laughs* That's a challenge.

 

[c4ts]

Why mess around trying to communicate with aliens? You're playing with fire, here.

 

[logical muse]

Here's a couple:

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_richards_doyle_040422.html

http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=179096

Of the limited number of species studied, human's communication level, particularly, the English language, falls well below that of humpback whales in complexity.
(snip)
But the difference between humans and humpbacks is known to be fairly significant already.

Neither of the linked articles provide any evidence that English falls well below humpback language complexity.

Anyone able to find some research that supports this claim?

 

[dogjones]

Comedian Bill Bailey on GM crop circles:

I think we should genetically engineer wheat to have the properties of velcro, so we could CATCH whatever it is that's forming those CROP CIRCLES...

But then the spaceship would have to have the corresponding velcro, so it's a bit of a long shot."

 

[Roadtoad]

Well, I ran across a photo of this crop circle, but I'm just not sure how to interpret it...

 

[JMA]

Well, I ran across a photo of this crop circle, but I'm just not sure how to interpret it...

Is it a real crop? If yes it would have been really fun, but it looks fake (I mean by that photoshoped)...