Critic’s “Top 15” claims by psychic detective Noreen Renier

[fls]

I shall follow your example by choosing to focus on Gary Posner's updated webpage about this case:

"4/23/11 Update: The James Randi Educational Foundation forum participants seem to be beating a dead horse. Even granting, for the sake of argument, that several of the many clues offered by Renier in the Williston case caused the police to zero-in on one particular pit, which turned out to be the correct one, does that constitute compelling evidence that 'psychic' power must have been in play? Considering the number of psychics, the number of cases they participate in, and the number of clues they offer per case, what would be truly unexpected would be for none of their efforts to ever be credited as having been useful!" See http://www.gpposner.com/Williston-forum-reply.html

So, Posner seems to have modified his position from "Renier did not help the police solve this case" to "Perhaps Renier helped police solve this case, but it wasn't attributable to psychic power."

I think he's saying the same sort of thing I said in post 150. In the absence of psychic powers, you'd expect some amazing hits due to chance. She doesn't even have a single amazing hit in this case, and this may be her best case. She seems to be unexpectedly bad.

Linda

 

[Rodney]

Psychic powers sure are strange. The guy was buried in water, yet the "psychic" missed that important detail entirely.

"A lot of rocks . . . . Swallowed up [down there in the water] but there's hardness higher up"

You've lost your keys.

For 16 months.

No matter where they found him in that whole region, they could have given her credit.

And by an amazing coincidence they found him in the only quarry where they looked.

 

[GeeMack]

"A lot of rocks . . . . Swallowed up [down there in the water] but there's hardness higher up"


For 16 months.


And by an amazing coincidence they found him in the only quarry where they looked.

They looked at over 30 quarries, pits, and ponds. Your definition of the term "the only quarry" is quite different from the common contemporary usage.

 

[Rodney]

They looked at over 30 quarries, pits, and ponds. Your definition of the term "the only quarry" is quite different from the common contemporary usage.

According to Detective Hewitt, "he 'walked around probably 30 quarries' before deciding that the Whitehurst pit most closely matched the totality of Renier's clues. Perhaps that was his reason for having the Navy divers scour that one pit, which did result in Lewis' body and truck being recovered." (emphasis added) See http://www.gpposner.com/Williston.html

 

[GeeMack]

According to Detective Hewitt, "he 'walked around probably 30 quarries' before deciding that the Whitehurst pit most closely matched the totality of Renier's clues. Perhaps that was his reason for having the Navy divers scour that one pit, which did result in Lewis' body and truck being recovered." (emphasis added) See http://www.gpposner.com/Williston.html

Too bad Renier isn't psychic. If she was then something she said might have directed the investigation to the Whitehurst gravel pit. As it is there is no objective evidence to suggest anything she offered was helpful towards solving the Lewis case. Even you've acknowledged that no objective evidence exists (although you tried, without success, to redefine the term "objective evidence" to include arguments from incredulity and ignorance).

Again, if the cops were so stupid that they didn't realize they fit Renier's line of crap to their discovery of Lewis's body after they found him, they should be fired. It is understandable though how they would want to defend a silly decision to consider some fortune teller's ambiguous babbling. Like I said before, it's better for them to give credit to someone else's alleged magical powers rather than take the blame for their own incompetence.

 

[Sherlock]

It's interesting that no one from the Williston Police department or any of the former officers who have been informed of this forum are responding. Their lack of rejecting paranormal claims and medium consultants --- at least as a current policy --- seems to open the door to future legal liabilities and criminal mis-trials arising from their association with paranormal investigative over-laps. Indeed as the Williston Police department apparently doesn't wish to publicly discharge itself from "paranormal" investigator work with a public statement they could potentially receive a strong rejection notice of their practices by a judge or jury. Such a decision could potentially re-define parts of their investigative work as "non-credible". But perhaps a public statement showcasing a rejection of paranormal overlap consulting is yet to come. However, given that it is likely to be just one of the remaining single handful of such law enforcement agencies throughout the United States who participate with "mediums in contact with the dead" perhaps it is fitting their department ceases to exist.

 

[TjW]

It's interesting that no one from the Williston Police department or any of the former officers who have been informed of this forum are responding. Their lack of rejecting paranormal claims and medium consultants --- at least as a current policy --- seems to open the door to future legal liabilities and criminal mis-trials arising from their association with paranormal investigative over-laps. Indeed as the Williston Police department apparently doesn't wish to publicly discharge itself from "paranormal" investigator work with a public statement they could potentially receive a strong rejection notice of their practices by a judge or jury. Such a decision could potentially re-define parts of their investigative work as "non-credible". But perhaps a public statement showcasing a rejection of paranormal overlap consulting is yet to come. However, given that it is likely to be just one of the remaining single handful of such law enforcement agencies throughout the United States who participate with "mediums in contact with the dead" perhaps it is fitting their department ceases to exist.

This may have something to do with the adage "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" and the first rule of holes.

 

[Garrette]

My initial reference to this case (I think in a thread previous to this one; possibly in this one, too) was that no one has proven that Renier did not use psychic powers to help the police find Lewis' remains, but no one has proven that she has.

After all the back-and-forth in this thread, I think I understated the weakness of the claim. Not only has no one proven that Renier used psychic powers, there is no evidence at all to believe that she did other than the fact that she and the police claim it; the fact that simple claims--even from the police--are insufficient even to establish legal proof should be telling enough when we are discussing something much closer to scientific proof.

 

[xjx388]

"A lot of rocks . . . . Swallowed up [down there in the water] but there's hardness higher up"

OK, but doesn't that fit a lot of terrain in the area surrounding his house?

For 16 months.

Right. And for 16 months they had to have searched every bit of terrain in the area. Unfortunately, we don't really know what they did for all that time. If the Whitehurst pit and the pit to the east of his home weren't searched before, especially after the handyman gave his statement, then that's pretty shoddy police work, no?

And by an amazing coincidence they found him in the only quarry where they looked.

Yup, they got lucky. I will give the psychic credit for this: she spurred them to finally do their jobs. Her actual clues were not at all useful (and would have led to the wrong pit), but at least she got them to start thinking about obvious stuff, especially in light of the handyman's statement: The dude drove himself into a pit.