Critical thinking: A lost cause at JREF?

[WildCat]

Some people just troll. Others think they're skeptics, but in reality they're cynics, it's a fine line.
Personally, I've learned a lot from this board.

 

[Sundog]

I guess because I use the term "genuine" critical thinker.

You lost me again. Because I'm not one myself? I accept that assertion, if that's what you mean. But my intentions are good. So are yours, I know. I think we just fail to see our own shortcomings at times; maybe that's inevitable.

 

[TLN]

I think we just fail to see our own shortcomings at times; maybe that's inevitable.

Feel free to point mine out to me. I appreciate negative feedback.

 

[Sundog]

Feel free to point mine out to me. I appreciate negative feedback.

It hasn't escaped my notice that you accept it gracefully. I hope I can do the same.

 

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Point out my short comings too.

I am still on the beginning of a learning curve when it personally comes to "How thinking goes wrong" (from Shermer's, "Why People Believe Weird Things", 1997)

A good read for me btw, that I am trying to apply and use to analyse my thinking.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/sherm3.htm

of note is 'the Planck Problem'

 

[jj]

Not all skeptics are rational.

And your objections in other threads aren't skeptical, either. Given your contributions to other threads, I don't think you're ready, yet, to offer any kind of criticism whatsoever to skeptics.

Of course, no skeptic is right all the time, but that's part of being human.

 

[jj]

The latter, yes. But one cannot advance in a skill by practicing it incorrectly. One can CERTAINLY never advance if one never recognizes their mistakes.

BULLcrap, Sundog, one can certainly advance a skill by practicing it incorrectly. That's called "learning".

Your statement is, on the face of it, a statement of faith, and I find it wanting.

What's more, I've known people who deny their mistakes complete to none-the-less advance, so I've personally seen counterexamples to that, as well.

Now, I agree, they'd learn *faster*, but that sometimes seems like it's too much to ask of humanity. (sigh)

 

[reprise]

I think our responses are sometimes "irrational" in that we sometimes tend to be dismissive of and condescending towards people whose exposure to critical thinking and the physical sciences isn't as comprehensive as our own and we can be extremely derisive of them if they don't quickly exhibit signs of changing their viewpoint to a more skeptical one. We tend to forget that even if people do choose to seek out scientific information, they are not going to acquire an understanding of university level physics overnight - or even a period of weeks - much less be able to usefully apply it to metaphysical questions within a short period of time.

While it's true that anyone who wants to learn can seek out knowledge for themselves, learning is process which takes time which we are sometimes not willing to extend to those whose viewpoitns are radically different to our own.

That said, skepticism is a description of our own approach to interpreting the world - there is no obligation on any of us to justify our own viewpoint to anyone other than ourselves or to convert others to our particular way of thinking.

 

[Thumper]

BULLcrap, Sundog, one can certainly advance a skill by practicing it incorrectly. That's called "learning".

Practicing a skill incorrectly only creates bad habits. Learning takes place if a person realizes the skill is being used incorrectly and that person then attempts to use it correctly in the future.

 

[Yahzi]

of note is 'the Planck Problem'

I think Planck was wrong. I think he was over-influenced by the battle to accept quantum mechanics. His statement was accurate for his time and field, but I think things are better now.

 

[jj]

Practicing a skill incorrectly only creates bad habits.

Please prove that absolute statement.
Learning takes place if a person realizes the skill is being used incorrectly and that person then attempts to use it correctly in the future.

Prove it.

Your inane statements, taken seriously, would requre that nobody ever try to learn.

 

[Thumper]

For instance...

I am trying to learn to bowl...

I am practicing throwing the ball overhand at the pins...

which is wrong...

I am not learning how to bowl. (I'd probs be better suited for baseball.)

Practicing wrongly doesn't teach you how to do it correctly. Making mistakes, correcting yourself, and practicing the correct manner does teach you how to do it correctly.

Originally posted by jj
Your inane statements, taken seriously, would requre that nobody ever try to learn.

Now I would like you to explain what you mean by this. What does learning mean to you?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Practicing wrongly doesn't teach you how to do it correctly. Making mistakes, correcting yourself, and practicing the correct manner does teach you how to do it correctly.


I agree with Thumper. In the martial arts, I tell people that practice merely makes habits. One much strive to ensure that they are good habits. If not, you'll end up kicking with your hands down and get KO'd like Sakuraba did in the last Pride.