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Cranio-sacral Therapy

Sure, the whole "flexible skull suture" thing is foolish enough on it's own to expose the whole crainiosacral nonesense for the quackery that it surely is, but here is the claim that really clinched it for me:

-The human brain makes rhythmic movements at a rate of 10 to 14 cycles per minute, a periodicity unrelated to breathing or heart rate.

-Small cranial pulsations can be felt with the fingertips

And ONLY with the fingertips... they cannot be detected with any electronic/mechanical/electro-mechanical measuring device?

C'mon... seriously now. Who would buy into this horsesh*t claim? A "pulsation" that cannot be detected by any transducer and/or strain gauge? It can only be detected by human hands?

The rhythm is "read" and changes are monitored through the therapist's hands. Temporary stoppage of the rhythm may be induced; this state is called a "still point" and signals to the body an opportunity to make adjustments. The role of the therapist in CST is largely to follow the body and the tissues rather than to lead or make choices. Thus, the wisdom of the body is honoured. We believe the body knows what change it needs but may need an environment, opportunity, or permission to make change.
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Gimme a break.
 
Originally posted by Homeoskeptic

My wife also uses this and swears by it. Again, I do not really know anything about it, but wonder if it really works?

Followed by:

I thought that was what William Sutherland did in the first place?

Followed by:

What about John Upledger then?

Dude... will you drop the 'innocent skeptic on a quest for knowledge' act? It's getting insulting.

I assure you, we've all caught the heady odor of your troll funk by now
 
Rolfe said:
Who's John Upledger?

Rolfe.
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This guy
Upledger.jpg


Aprently he is the person who made up CranioSacral Therapy and SomatoEmotional Release.

http://www.upclosepersonal.net/DrJohnUpledger/bio.html

You may be able to buy shares in his company if you have lost your sense of ethics.
 
geni said:
Aprently he is the person who made up CranioSacral Therapy and SomatoEmotional Release.
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Oh. Really. And this new "sceptical" poster who doesn't know much about cranial osteopathy knows all about him?

I agree with Psiload, hidden agenda time. It's the real definition of a troll, isn't it - someone who comes in feigning a belief they don't truly hold, just to get a reaction. Never mind, we can still have a civilised discussion.

The funny bit is, when that osteopath woman did what I actually went to her for, sorted out the stiff neck, she put far more pressure on my head than while she was doing the cranial stuff. It's like chiropractors wiggling their hands on a horse's back, and not thinking about the rider mounting up and the horse taking a jump....

I actually said at the time, this is homoeopathic massage, isn't it. :D

Rolfe.
 
Oh look! Upledger is selling stuff on his website! Woo hoo! He's got nothing to hide!
 
In the TV piece I mentioned above, they claimed that the amount of pressure required for adjusting the flow of these pulses was roughly the weight of a nickel. (sorry, as an ignorant american, I can't convert this to other currencies.)

So, yeah, there's considerably more force being placed against my back when I lean against a chair, or wear a necktie, or put my coat on...but of course, those don't hit just the right place...

Anyone who has ever had a spinal tap can attest to how strongly held together those vertebra are...that nickel isn't worth ...um... a wooden nickel?

And yup, another vote for troll. But so far, interesting and enlightening discussion...
 
A correction:

I apologize... it seems I misspoke. I said:

C'mon... seriously now. Who would buy into this horsesh*t claim? A "pulsation" that cannot be detected by any transducer and/or strain gauge? It can only be detected by human hands?
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I was wrong... it seems that these "pulsations" cannot be detected by human hands after all:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=8090842&dopt=Citation

Interrater reliability of craniosacral rate measurements and their relationship with subjects' and examiners' heart and respiratory rate measurements.

DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSIONS. Measurements of craniosacral motion did not appear to be related to measurements of heart and respiratory rates, and therapists were not able to measure it reliably. Measurement error may be sufficiently large to render many clinical decisions potentially erroneous.
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I stand corrected.
 
Don't know about the science (or lack thereof behind it), but the best damn massage I ever had period was a cranio-sacral therapy massage.

Anecdote, I know. But really--best massage ever.
 
c0rbin said:
Don't know about the science (or lack thereof behind it), but the best damn massage I ever had period was a cranio-sacral therapy massage.

Anecdote, I know. But really--best massage ever.
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Really? Did the therapist gently place a bunch of nickels on your back? A five-gram pressure massage? One wouldn't imagine that would make for a very effective massage...

I guess you have to factor in the "homeopathic massage" effect? :D

Sounds more like you got a standard massage with some craniosacralspeak thrown in to jazz it up a little...

was this reflected in the bill, I wonder? ;)
 
Homeoskeptic, you have solidified my opinion of your trollish nature.

You claim to have little or no knowledge about things such as homeopathy or cranio-sacral therapy. But, you can name-drop in a flash..?

I must admit that your method of trolling is a different style than that which I have encountered in the past. You playing the bewildered and beleaguered while holding your wife's claims up in an Urband Legend style of the FoaF (friend of a friend) manner of anecdote, plays against both ego and sympathy. If you hadn't pushed it too far by revealing your hand so soon, I think You'd have pulled it off quite well...
 
Really? Did the therapist gently place a bunch of nickels on your back? A five-gram pressure massage? One wouldn't imagine that would make for a very effective massage...
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No nickles, gentle pressure though.

I guess you have to factor in the "homeopathic massage" effect?
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I guess I could if I knew what that was.

Sounds more like you got a standard massage with some craniosacralspeak thrown in to jazz it up a little...
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Standard massage? There are all kinds of massage and I have had most of them, my wife being a Registered Massage Therapist. This one was the best, IME.

was this reflected in the bill, I wonder?
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I would have paid for it. My wife charges people $50-$90 per hour and I would have paid this therpaist for it, had I not aquired the services as a gift.

The lady made no claims and I spent a very pleasant hour and a half followed by a relaxed evening and a great night sleep.

In fact, I became a regular (luckily for me, my wife traded services with her and I reaped the benefit). The only thing that made me quit was that I moved.

Too bad. It was a fantastic massage.
 
c0rbin said:
Too bad. It was a fantastic massage.
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You and Psiload seem to be missing the point. I'm sure it was a good massage, the crux though, is whether it worked to release emotions or whatever, getting a foot massage probably feels great, no question, it's just when the person massaging your foot then says they just improved your digestion that I might draw the line.

The issue isn't how good it feels, it's whether it does what it claims.
 
Things are not what they seem

You and Psiload seem to be missing the point. I'm sure it was a good massage, the crux though, is whether it worked to release emotions or whatever, getting a foot massage probably feels great, no question, it's just when the person massaging your foot then says they just improved your digestion that I might draw the line.

The issue isn't how good it feels, it's whether it does what it claims.
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We draw similar lines. I too would not overpay a massage therapist based on such outrageous claims--no more than I would pay a mechanic who claimed he could improve my car's fuel efficiency by giving it a new paint job.

Do you think I am a fool?

This therapist made no mention of my liver. Any conversation we had was about tension in my back and neck. If I were not getting the massages by other arrangments, I would have gladly paid her an industry standard massage therapy fee as it was (take note) the best damn massage I have ever had.

She could have prattled on about energy and what ever supernatural snake oil your mind can concieve, and I still would have paid her the standard fee because it was worth it to me as a consumer.
 
c0rbin said:
Things are not what they seem



We draw similar lines. I too would not overpay a massage therapist based on such outrageous claims--no more than I would pay a mechanic who claimed he could improve my car's fuel efficiency by giving it a new paint job.

Do you think I am a fool?

This therapist made no mention of my liver. Any conversation we had was about tension in my back and neck. If I were not getting the massages by other arrangments, I would have gladly paid her an industry standard massage therapy fee as it was (take note) the best damn massage I have ever had.

She could have prattled on about energy and what ever supernatural snake oil your mind can concieve, and I still would have paid her the standard fee because it was worth it to me as a consumer.
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I'm sorry... I was trying to be Mr. Funny ha ha comedy joke, and I didn't explain my meaning very well.

All kidding aside... what I was getting at is that the treatment you seem to have gotten was a massage, not craniosacral therapy. "True" craniosacral treatments consists of "detection"- which is a light(approx 5 grams of pressure) palpation, and "treatment"- which consists of light tapping(again, approx. 5 grams of pressure). I doubt anyone could mistake this sort of touching, and tapping for a standard type of massage.

Given the usual woo woo penchant for borrowing a little from column A, a little from column B, and making it up as they go along, it wouldn't surprise me to see a practitioner giving a, more or less, standard massage (one which involves more rubbing than touching and tapping) and describing it as a craniosacral treatment. After all... it's not like they're worried about accusations of malpractice. :D
 
Like I said, I have had many many massages from many different "approaches" so I know my effleurage from percussion.

I do not respond to tissue-type massages. I find them irritating and "not-relaxing." It was therefore nice for me when she pressed and tapped.

I would not have sought out the massage for ailing kidneys or excessive dandruff...trust me. And the massage she gave me was not a "standard" massage.

This may not be true for other people, as we are all thankfully unique, but all I am saying is that it was the best massage I have ever received.
 
c0rbin said:
Do you think I am a fool?
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No, far from it, I was just trying to help, it seemed like you were talking about how it felt good, and you were happy with it, while psiload was talking about it's efifacy. Two people in a discussion who are talking about two different points rarely get anywhere, so I was just trying to lend an outsiders perspective to help out a bit.

I doubt you will seriously find anyone to dispute how good the massage made you feel. You will find people, however, who will not believe it relieves chakras, which I know you don't think either, but that's what the psiload was talking about, and you weren't. That's all.
 
True enough, Squishy. In hindsight I can see we were sparring our own shadows.

As for chakras, I would not pay to have them manipulated by anyone, except...for...maybe...angelina jolie
 
c0rbin said:
True enough, Squishy. In hindsight I can see we were sparring our own shadows.

As for chakras, I would not pay to have them manipulated by anyone, except...for...maybe...angelina jolie
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Glad I could help. I could see myself letting certain people manipulate my chakras also.....alyson hannigan

I have no problem letting all my dearest held principles go for a pretty face. ;)
 
This sounds a bit like Myofascial Release, which is a nice technique for stretching and pressure point relief. There is a cranial stretch in this technique which feels as though it adds 2 inches to your height. Very relaxing.



The sites I've found all refer to it as "gentle stretching" but I've not found it to be so. In fact, it's similar to Rolfing, and generally stays just within the individual's pain tolerance. In fact, when I took the training, we were told again and again that there would be pain, but it should be a "good pain."

I've heard of people having emotional reactions to the massage, but never seen it or experienced it. But, I just use stretches for a particular area, like the neck or lower back, and not a whole body massage.
 
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