Merged Core-led collapse and explosive demolition

ergo said:
No, but this is not the subject of this thread.

We've also gone over this point ad nauseum and bedunkers have yet to provide a model showing that rubble can crush any amount of steel-framed highrise, let alone 90-odd storeys of it.
Does rubble have mass?

Most of the floors of the WTC were probably designed for a live load of 60 psf. Assume the structure weighs about 50 psf, that the office contents were actually massless, and that the factor against catastrophic failure is 5. Further assume that the rubble gently lies down on the floor below it, rather than falling on it. Under these assumptions it would take about 6 floors (60 times 5 divided by 50) worth of rubbled structure to collapse one floor. They weren't designed to withstand an infinite amount of loading, ya know.
 
Just in case someone is wondering, here is the French patent for the Verinage.
https://data.epo.org/publication-server/getpdf.jsp?pn=1082505&ki=B1&cc=EP

Here is an English page of information.
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publ...=A1&FT=D&date=20010314&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

It's all in French, both links.

I'm doing a google search on how to say "It couldn't survive aircraft impacts" in French....

:eye-poppi


........I should note the Deutch, English and French links at the top don't change the language as they're intended.
 
No, but this is not the subject of this thread.

We've also gone over this point ad nauseum and bedunkers have yet to provide a model showing that rubble can crush any amount of steel-framed highrise, let alone 90-odd storeys of it.

So how does Verinage work do you think? What makes steel indestructible?
 
Last edited:
It's all in French, both links.

I'm doing a google search on how to say "It couldn't survive aircraft impacts" in French....

:eye-poppi


........I should note the Deutch, English and French links at the top don't change the language as they're intended.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

Can you use Babelfish to translate it?
 
How funny. Here's a word I've never heard before. I see it for the first time ever on this thread, and try looking it up. Surprise, surprise, it doesn't seem to exist as a term in English outside of 9/11 fora.

So can someone give me a quick and easy definition?

In Verinage demolition, you buckle columns across one floor, usually at about half the height of the building, using hydraulic devices. Gravity does the rest, when the upper part crashes onto the verinage floor and crushes all the way to the ground.

I think we are discussing Verinage here not because anyone proposes that this method was used (no hydraulic piston would have remained operable on the fire floors that gave way first, as these were fire floors), but to consider an alternative.

I think the game ergo is playing here is to fool some people into stating the opinion that Verinage would not have been possible, and then argue from there that failure of one initiating floor could not have caused global collapse.

So I would like to ask NoahsFence why he replied with "Not in a million years."? My guess would be one of these:
- Verinage hydraulics, as already mentioned, would not have survived the fires
- Verinage hydraulics are to big to not be noticed
- Verinage hydraulics are sturdy, steely things that would have been noticed in the rubble
Etc.
However, if we ask, in principle, if the towers could have been Verinaged (sans fires, disregarding the problem of stealthiness...), then the answer should be a clear YES: Any initial failure that makes the top block fall through the height of one floor would lead to total collapse. Doesn't matter if fire, explosives, hydraulics, an army of midgets with steel saws, space rays, nukes, thermXte...
 
So I would like to ask NoahsFence why he replied with "Not in a million years."? My guess would be one of these:
- Verinage hydraulics, as already mentioned, would not have survived the fires
- Verinage hydraulics are to big to not be noticed
- Verinage hydraulics are sturdy, steely things that would have been noticed in the rubble

Etc.
However, if we ask, in principle, if the towers could have been Verinaged (sans fires, disregarding the problem of stealthiness...), then the answer should be a clear YES: Any initial failure that makes the top block fall through the height of one floor would lead to total collapse. Doesn't matter if fire, explosives, hydraulics, an army of midgets with steel saws, space rays, nukes, thermXte...


That's exactly why. Nothing short of divine intervention would allow any demo equipment to survive the impacts.
 
We've also gone over this point ad nauseum and bedunkers have yet to provide a model showing that rubble can crush any amount of steel-framed highrise, let alone 90-odd storeys of it.

Glad to help, here you go:

F = ma

E < infinity

(where E is the elasticity modulus of a steel-framed highrise)

The amount of steel-framed highrise is irrelevant.
 
No, but this is not the subject of this thread.

We've also gone over this point ad nauseum and bedunkers have yet to provide a model showing that rubble can crush any amount of steel-framed highrise, let alone 90-odd storeys of it.

Don't need to show you a model.

we have shown you a video of an ACTUAL collapse where 4 floors crushed down over 8 floors.

But you will ignore this, just like you ignore the testimony of the firefighters who survived the collapse and that specifically don't mention explosions...

But hey go figure... ergo ignoring any inconvenient facts which show he is full of crap...

into vs onto
essentially vs actually
center of mass vs "debris field the size of the moon"
exponentially
and the list keeps on growing and growing as to ergo's ignorance.
 
Glad to help, here you go:

F = ma

E < infinity

(where E is the elasticity modulus of a steel-framed highrise)

The amount of steel-framed highrise is irrelevant.

Do you happen to remember that youtube video a twoofer made a few years back about an equation? It was some nutter from England who kept repeating some same equation over and over again and saying that is why the towers could not have been a gravity driven collapse. He was young, and was acting like he knew a lot about physics. When questioned, he eventually admitted to still being in high school and learning the equations from his high school physics teacher. Do you remember the video and the equation he wouldn't stop going on about? Random question I know, but your equations made me think of his lunacy.
 
Do you happen to remember that youtube video a twoofer made a few years back about an equation? It was some nutter from England who kept repeating some same equation over and over again and saying that is why the towers could not have been a gravity driven collapse. He was young, and was acting like he knew a lot about physics. When questioned, he eventually admitted to still being in high school and learning the equations from his high school physics teacher. Do you remember the video and the equation he wouldn't stop going on about? Random question I know, but your equations made me think of his lunacy.

"NET FORCE EQUALS ZERO!!!"

Does that ring a bell?
 
"NET FORCE EQUALS ZERO!!!"

Does that ring a bell?

Very much so. He was stating that since when the structure was still standing that the upward force had to balance to force due to gravity of the mass of the structure that it could never fall. That since Newton tells us that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction that no matter how much downward force you exerted that the Earth would exert the exact same force in the opposite direction.

Of course if true it meant that making structures out of anything other than cardboard is a waste of money.
 

Back
Top Bottom