Merged Core-led collapse and explosive demolition

Seriously, Mr Smith? I'm no expert, and I'm prepared to be disabused of the notion that a closed door (however heavy) would necessarily reduce the sound of an event on one side heard by someone on the other side, as compared to a similar scenario with the door open, but I'd want more than an anonymous assertion to shift my position.
It reflects it. It doesn't absorb it. Just so we are clear of what sound we are talking about that you think your door would have a significant effect on.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition
 
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It reflects it. It doesn't absorb it.

And was that the contention? No. Is a sound as loud if some of the sound waves are reflected away from the hearer? No. Is that substantially different than absorption for the purposes of the discussion? No.
 
And was that the contention? No. Is a sound as loud if some of the sound waves are reflected away from the hearer? No. Is that substantially different than absorption for the purposes of the discussion? No.
You are comparing audible speech to.....
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition

In the case of explosive controlled demolition. Give us a scenario and your numbers. Your conspiracy. You try and support it.
 
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Your post demonstrates one of the things that reduces all discussion around here into almost worthless nonsense.

I plucked a question from the OP, which to paraphrase goes...

What is the effect of the intervening structure between a BOOM high up in the core of the tower and a microphone at ground level a distance from the base ?

Irrelevant.

We know there were no bombs in the cores, ergo no need to speculate on what observable effects such non-existant bombs would have.
 
You are comparing audible speech to.....
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition

In the case of explosive controlled demolition. Give us a scenario and your numbers. Your conspiracy. You try and support it.

I'm comparing soundwaves to...soundwaves. And it's not my conspiracy. You're making a common mistake I referred to earlier in this thread - expecting 'debunkers' to make sense doesn't make me a 'twoofer'.
 
I think a big part of the learning barrier here is the 9/11 bedunker dogma that "no explosions were heard"

That's a bald-faced lie. Tragically typical of a "truther" though.

I have never seen a debunker deny that there were explosions in the fires on 9/11.

Explosions are a common feature of major structural fires.


What we have pointed out to you, over and over and over and over again... is that the explosions that were witnessed had no characteristics in common with demolition charges.

Futhermore, they did not generate seismic signatures. Thus indicating that these were normal secondary fire explosions and not cutter charges physically coupled to structural supports.
 
...
Point source x dB center of 98th floor core okay ? :)
...

Not at all. Please go for the lowest, not the highest charge.
Floor 77 at most.
Please ask ergo to specify the lowest floor he believes most have been rigged with explosives in his "core-led collapse and explosive demolition".
 
Apart from... the intervening structure... you're quite right ;)
If there was an intervening structure it would not be seen on the video, ergo claims bombs on the upper floors, remember? Nothing but clear air from the hush-a-booms (or maybe the nuclear hand grenades ergo was pushing in another thread) to the recording device... and yet not a peep from demolition explosives.
 
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Seriously, Mr Smith? I'm no expert, and I'm prepared to be disabused of the notion that a closed door (however heavy) would necessarily reduce the sound of an event on one side heard by someone on the other side, as compared to a similar scenario with the door open, but I'd want more than an anonymous assertion to shift my position.
Which door? If an explosive was near a door it would be no longer a door. On a floor in the WTC the sound would go over the door, through the ceiling tiles (made of thermite according to drugged up 911 truth), over the door and knock you down.

Has anyone been in a building with an explosive going off? What is the safe distance near explosives?

over 1,000 pounds of explosives were used in 1993 and that failed to take down the towers. The minimum safe distance for 1,000 pounds would be 3,000 feet. For 1 pound of TNT, 900 feet. Looks like the door would be dead, gone, kaput, blown down.


Too bad ergo can't produce, can't source someone who thought they heard explosives. Ergo can't produce anyone at the WTC who believe there were explosive in the buildings.
 
I think a big part of the learning barrier here is the 9/11 bedunker dogma that "no explosions were heard" - by anyone. They're so convinced of this that it really zips up the argument very conveniently for them. They're literally blind and deaf to the presentation of extensive testimonial from the building workers, especially the ones who were in the basement at the time, and that of inside survivors, and outside witnesses, including firefighters. Yes, we know that bodies hitting cement and glass made explosive sounds. Bedunkers like to point out the few testimonies (I think you can count them on one hand) that make this comparison. In doing so, they have already debunked themselves, in that explosive sounds were indeed heard. People inside the building however, on the sub levels and higher floors would not be hearing the bodies hitting. They heard something else. There is extensive video evidence of news footage at the time describing explosions, of firefighters describing explosions. People thought there were bombs in the buildings. Many testimonials compared the sound to that of the 1993 bombing. Was everyone deafened in the 1993 bombing?

Explosions were heard, and felt. To say there is "no evidence" of them is simply lying, and an absurd kind of lying since the evidence and testimonial is abundant and readily found.

Oh Stundie I mean Ergo.... we have gone over this before.

There are about 20 things in an office building that when on fire will explode.
Now in good science, before you make a claim about something, you eliminate the confounds. Can you eliminate ANY of those 20 items which in regular office fires explode?

Yes or no?

No you can't. Now are any of those 20 items in a regular office fire that explode caused by EXPLOSIVES?

Beyond that simple science experiment, we also have your inability to understand people making metaphorical statements and are also equating the word "explode" with "explosives."

So we can add to your demonstrated ignorance of
into vs onto
essentially vs actually
center of mass vs debris field the "size of the moon"
exponentially
about

and now we can add in
explode vs explosives.

There are several reports of people hearing "Trains rumbling." Are you saying there was a runaway train in the towers?
 

Oy...

In a way Ergo is right. His sloppy use of english, his poor vocabulary and his inability to properly use the correct definitions of the terms is what is confusing this.

At the point of failure, the core failed (and using Bazants limiting case) that was all it took to bring down the towers (a fall of one floor).

So in this instance S Ergo is saying that the core failed at the initiation area, and the rest of the building collapsed... what we see is then the lower core still standing (you know... the parts they didn't need to put explosives on)
 
If there was an intervening structure it would not be seen on the video, ergo claims bombs on the upper floors, remember? Nothing but clear air from the hush-a-booms (or maybe the nuclear hand grenades ergo was pushing in another thread) to the recording device... and yet not a peep from demolition explosives.

Wildcat.

That wasn't Stun Ergo... that was a mini nuker...

different posters
 
Femr.

Ergo and you are asking a question about how much the sound would be deadened by the intervening materials and what would be heard outside of the building, or what would be heard with the collapse happening right after/during the "explosions." Correct?

How about we look at it a different way. Ergo is trying to use the "first time in history" cannard, but how about we see a CD from inside a building across the street with their windows closed.

Would that work as an example of what would be heard? (it still has to go throug the glass, get to the people listening to it and have sound dampened by the materials around)

Would that be an acceptable way to start?

(my speakers aren't working, and I'm doing this from memory, so if I have the wrong video let me know and I'll find the ones I'm thinking about)


One of these was inside an office building across the street?


This is one of the ones I was thinking about... what do you hear? What is recorded? There are more, I'll look and find them later.

ETA: this one

what do you hear?


what do you hear?

This one is also indoors
 
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I see you are not motivated to do so, but until someone does, this thread (and probably others) will continue and resurface ad infinitum.


NIST used a sophisticated program that does all that when they demonstrated that cutter charges weren't used at 7.

- 130-140 dB at distance
- shattered windows all over the place

It would be reasonable to expect the same results.
 
I think a big part of the learning barrier here is the 9/11 bedunker dogma that "no explosions were heard" - by anyone.

Incorrect. Explosions certainly were heard by many people on 911. It would be strange had they not.

 
I wonder how many times ergo needs to be told that NOBODY claims no explosions were heard before he retains the information.
 
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