qayak
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2006
- Messages
- 13,844
Because I am always willing to discuss any subject with anyone, I have had some pretty remarkable conversations over the years. Many of these conversations are funny but they are hardly worth mentioning because the people involved are completely ignorant on the subjects they hold such a strong opinion on. However, every once in awhile I have a conversation with an extremely intelligent person that leaves me stunned. Such conversations often take place between my sister and me.
To give you a little background; my sister is 4 years older than me and the 5th child in a family of 7. I am the youngest. She is quite smart, having achieved high marks throughout her education. She has held good jobs and run a business of her own for many years. She married a man several years younger, has three children and has managed to amass a large amount of money. By all accounts she is very successful.
A few years before meeting her future husband she joined a religion known as The Way Foundation. (Listed as a cult by the U.S. government.) In fact, this is where she met her husband. Anyway, I have a good relationship with my sister even though she continually preaches to me about God and other such nonsense.
Some of our conversations however are just plain bizzarre. I have included a few here for your reading pleasure. In all these conversations I refer to my sister simply as "K" and I try to include some context to the discussion.
God Has More Important Things To Do
One summer I was visiting my sister and we took her two kids for a walk. The conversation got around to God as it always seems to do and she informed me that the reason there was so much suffering in the world was because God did not have time to deal with it all and he expected us to help ourselves whenever possible. As we walked her son, who was 4 years old, rubbed up against a blackberry bush and got a tiny scratch (Truth be told, I couldn't see it). My sister immediately called her daughter over, all three of them joined hands, knelt down on one knee and prayed to God to heal her son's wounds. Being used to my sister's bizzarre antics, I continued to stroll down the street, waiting for them to catch up. After they did, this was the conversation:
K- It makes you uncomfortable when we pray in front of you doesn't it?
Me- No, it makes me uncomfortable that you make a public spectacle of praying. It sounds silly but I was embarassed for you.
K- If you knew God like I do, you wouldn't be embarassed.
Me- Well, I don't know God very well but I do know you and I was still embarassed so I doubt that getting to know God will ease my discomfort.
K- You should have prayed with us.
Me- I don't believe in God.
K- But it is your nephew we were healing you should have done it for him.
Me- If he was actually hurt I would have helped him, I do have first-aid you know.
K- His spirit was wounded and only prayer could help.
At this point I tried to change the direction of conversation. From many years of experience I know that I cannot change the subject only the direction when it comes to God.
Me- Why did you pray to God to help your son?
K- I told you, he was spiritually wounded.
Me- Actually it was his arm that got touched by the thorn and I wouldn't really call it a wound. It hardly fits the description.
K- You heard him cry out? That shows that his spirit was injured.
Me- I thought that was a reaction to the physical pain in his arm caused by the thorn.
K- It was his spirit crying out in pain.
Me- Oh. Do you think God helped?
K- Of course he did! Look at how happy my son is.
Me- He didn't seem unhappy before plus he got a bunch of attention from his mother and sister which didn't hurt either.
K- That is part of God's system of healing.
Me- Oh, so I don't really need God, I can just give my own son a little attention when he is hurt, maybe have the rest of the familly come over and give him a pat on the head, and he should be cured?
K- It won't work without praying.
Me- Well, I guess my son is just going to have to suffer then. Do you think praying to God over such a minor thing is really the best use of God's time?
K- What do you mean?
Me- Well, you said that God didn't have time to heal all the woes of the world and expected us to help ourselves if possible and then you interrupt all his important work for such a trivial thing as a minor thorn prick. Perhaps God was in the middle of saving a starving child in Africa and your interuption means the child died.
K- Don't be ridiculous!
Me- I am just trying to understand how this God thing works. You tell me that God is omnipotent and then say I can't expect him to do everything. You tell me that he doesn't have time to deal with everything but then you take up more of his precious time with a trivial matter. I am trying hard to understand.
K- Well, if God did stop saving a child's life in Africa to come help my son it was because my son is more worthy than that child.
Me- Are you saying God chose to allow a child to die in order to make your son feel better? If God had no choice but to answer your prayer then it is your fault that the child died for such a trivial thing as a thorn prick. If he had a choice and answered your prayer, it is his fault that the child died.
K- God answers the prayers of those who are worthy first.
Me- And you think you and your family are worthy?
K- Yes we are because we honour God.
Me- I thought you said he expected you to help yourself when possible. How is it honouring him if you did not obey and called on him for such a silly thing as a thorn prick?
K- You just don't understand how God works.
Me- Ain't that the truth!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm A Shoe-in For Heaven!
One day my sister was putting on a big show about being concerned for my welfare after I died. She was upset that I would not get into heaven because I don't believe in God and I have not accepted Jesus Christ into my heart.
K- It really upsets me that you will not get into heaven!
Me- I will be dead and I won't care.
K- But I will care, you are my brother!
Me- Well, I don't see why I wouldn't get into heaven I am a pretty decent person.
K- That doesn't matter. You have to accept Jesus. The bible says that Jesus is the only path to heaven.
Me- What is your definition of heaven?
K- It is the place where good people who believe in Jesus go to be surrounded by those they love for all eternity.
Me- Do you love me K?
K- Yes, that is why I am so concerned!
Me- Well, just keep loving me and believing in Jesus then when you get in, I will automatically be there!
K- It doesn't work like that!
Me- Why not?
K- Because if you don't accept Jesus into your heart you can't get into heaven.
Me- So God will punish you for my sins?
K- No he won't!
Me- But he is denying one of the people you love access to heaven, isn't that punishing you?
K- Your crazy!
Me- Perhaps. Did you say that you are going to live forever in heaven?
K- Yes.
Me- What happens if you go skydiving and the 'chute doesn't open?
K- You live forever so you can't die.
Me- So, the 'chute always opens?
K- Yes.
Me- Seems kinda boring. There isn't much thrill when everything is guaranteed to turn out right.
K-But you get to live forever!
Me- How do you know your alive?
K- What kind of stupid question is that?
Me- I'm serious. How do you know you're alive?
K- I don't know.
Me- Well, how would I know if I wasn't alive?
K- If you weren't alive, you would be dead.
Me- Exactly! But in heaven I can't be dead so I guess I can't really be alive either. This doesn't sound too great to me.
K- No! That isn't what I meant.
Me- So I can die in heaven?
K- I don't know.
Me- It seems to me that the Heaven you describe is not Heaven at all but Hell. I wouldn't be too concerned if your little brother doesn't make it.
K- You are such a jerk!
To give you a little background; my sister is 4 years older than me and the 5th child in a family of 7. I am the youngest. She is quite smart, having achieved high marks throughout her education. She has held good jobs and run a business of her own for many years. She married a man several years younger, has three children and has managed to amass a large amount of money. By all accounts she is very successful.
A few years before meeting her future husband she joined a religion known as The Way Foundation. (Listed as a cult by the U.S. government.) In fact, this is where she met her husband. Anyway, I have a good relationship with my sister even though she continually preaches to me about God and other such nonsense.
Some of our conversations however are just plain bizzarre. I have included a few here for your reading pleasure. In all these conversations I refer to my sister simply as "K" and I try to include some context to the discussion.
God Has More Important Things To Do
One summer I was visiting my sister and we took her two kids for a walk. The conversation got around to God as it always seems to do and she informed me that the reason there was so much suffering in the world was because God did not have time to deal with it all and he expected us to help ourselves whenever possible. As we walked her son, who was 4 years old, rubbed up against a blackberry bush and got a tiny scratch (Truth be told, I couldn't see it). My sister immediately called her daughter over, all three of them joined hands, knelt down on one knee and prayed to God to heal her son's wounds. Being used to my sister's bizzarre antics, I continued to stroll down the street, waiting for them to catch up. After they did, this was the conversation:
K- It makes you uncomfortable when we pray in front of you doesn't it?
Me- No, it makes me uncomfortable that you make a public spectacle of praying. It sounds silly but I was embarassed for you.
K- If you knew God like I do, you wouldn't be embarassed.
Me- Well, I don't know God very well but I do know you and I was still embarassed so I doubt that getting to know God will ease my discomfort.
K- You should have prayed with us.
Me- I don't believe in God.
K- But it is your nephew we were healing you should have done it for him.
Me- If he was actually hurt I would have helped him, I do have first-aid you know.
K- His spirit was wounded and only prayer could help.
At this point I tried to change the direction of conversation. From many years of experience I know that I cannot change the subject only the direction when it comes to God.
Me- Why did you pray to God to help your son?
K- I told you, he was spiritually wounded.
Me- Actually it was his arm that got touched by the thorn and I wouldn't really call it a wound. It hardly fits the description.
K- You heard him cry out? That shows that his spirit was injured.
Me- I thought that was a reaction to the physical pain in his arm caused by the thorn.
K- It was his spirit crying out in pain.
Me- Oh. Do you think God helped?
K- Of course he did! Look at how happy my son is.
Me- He didn't seem unhappy before plus he got a bunch of attention from his mother and sister which didn't hurt either.
K- That is part of God's system of healing.
Me- Oh, so I don't really need God, I can just give my own son a little attention when he is hurt, maybe have the rest of the familly come over and give him a pat on the head, and he should be cured?
K- It won't work without praying.
Me- Well, I guess my son is just going to have to suffer then. Do you think praying to God over such a minor thing is really the best use of God's time?
K- What do you mean?
Me- Well, you said that God didn't have time to heal all the woes of the world and expected us to help ourselves if possible and then you interrupt all his important work for such a trivial thing as a minor thorn prick. Perhaps God was in the middle of saving a starving child in Africa and your interuption means the child died.
K- Don't be ridiculous!
Me- I am just trying to understand how this God thing works. You tell me that God is omnipotent and then say I can't expect him to do everything. You tell me that he doesn't have time to deal with everything but then you take up more of his precious time with a trivial matter. I am trying hard to understand.
K- Well, if God did stop saving a child's life in Africa to come help my son it was because my son is more worthy than that child.
Me- Are you saying God chose to allow a child to die in order to make your son feel better? If God had no choice but to answer your prayer then it is your fault that the child died for such a trivial thing as a thorn prick. If he had a choice and answered your prayer, it is his fault that the child died.
K- God answers the prayers of those who are worthy first.
Me- And you think you and your family are worthy?
K- Yes we are because we honour God.
Me- I thought you said he expected you to help yourself when possible. How is it honouring him if you did not obey and called on him for such a silly thing as a thorn prick?
K- You just don't understand how God works.
Me- Ain't that the truth!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm A Shoe-in For Heaven!
One day my sister was putting on a big show about being concerned for my welfare after I died. She was upset that I would not get into heaven because I don't believe in God and I have not accepted Jesus Christ into my heart.
K- It really upsets me that you will not get into heaven!
Me- I will be dead and I won't care.
K- But I will care, you are my brother!
Me- Well, I don't see why I wouldn't get into heaven I am a pretty decent person.
K- That doesn't matter. You have to accept Jesus. The bible says that Jesus is the only path to heaven.
Me- What is your definition of heaven?
K- It is the place where good people who believe in Jesus go to be surrounded by those they love for all eternity.
Me- Do you love me K?
K- Yes, that is why I am so concerned!
Me- Well, just keep loving me and believing in Jesus then when you get in, I will automatically be there!
K- It doesn't work like that!
Me- Why not?
K- Because if you don't accept Jesus into your heart you can't get into heaven.
Me- So God will punish you for my sins?
K- No he won't!
Me- But he is denying one of the people you love access to heaven, isn't that punishing you?
K- Your crazy!
Me- Perhaps. Did you say that you are going to live forever in heaven?
K- Yes.
Me- What happens if you go skydiving and the 'chute doesn't open?
K- You live forever so you can't die.
Me- So, the 'chute always opens?
K- Yes.
Me- Seems kinda boring. There isn't much thrill when everything is guaranteed to turn out right.
K-But you get to live forever!
Me- How do you know your alive?
K- What kind of stupid question is that?
Me- I'm serious. How do you know you're alive?
K- I don't know.
Me- Well, how would I know if I wasn't alive?
K- If you weren't alive, you would be dead.
Me- Exactly! But in heaven I can't be dead so I guess I can't really be alive either. This doesn't sound too great to me.
K- No! That isn't what I meant.
Me- So I can die in heaven?
K- I don't know.
Me- It seems to me that the Heaven you describe is not Heaven at all but Hell. I wouldn't be too concerned if your little brother doesn't make it.
K- You are such a jerk!
She also taught me to ride a bike by putting me on one at the top of a very steep hill and giving me a little push to "help me out!" 
I have a new hero.