controll your dreams?

rebecca said:


Hi Kitty,

If you're curious, whenever I have a bad dream, I would either just change it to a good dream using the same technique of dreaming in which I change good dreams, or failing that, I would simply wake myself up.

So, you dont have dreams take control and you wake up scared or upset?

Also, I wasnt quite sure what was meant by lucid and I surfed a bit so I understand its something one practices to control your dreams.

But if thats how it works does it not interfer with your regular sleep cycle because you are not in a deep sleep (which your body needs) ??:confused:
 
My understanding of "lucidity" is not that it represents control, but awareness of the dream as a dream. An important first step in control, for otherwise you wouldn't think to try to control things.

I have found that it is difficult to achieve but happens to me sometimes. For example, I am aware that when reading text in dreams, that it rarely comes up the same way twice. But I tend to "forget" that when I am actually dreaming and just get confused.

At those times when I do achieve lucidity, control is slippery... but it is a matter of "expecting" things into happening. Basically, whatever you think about enough, tends to happen in some way. But not necessarily the way you wanted it to.

The principle benefit of lucidity to me is somewhat of a primitive appeal: I realize that nothing can truly harm me, and that there are no predictable consequences for my actions. So I can do pretty much whatever I want until the dream falls into incoherence, or turns unpleasant. A truly nasty turn tends to wake me up instinctively, whether I am lucid or not.
 
gnome

What Im also wondering then what would be the difference between this and day dreaming ? Other than the obvious laying down and sleeping.

As I understand you would expect (or control) things to happen but perhaps you actually drop into sleep and the subconcious takes over and then you realise this then wake up again just enough to keep your dream going the way you want??

Im trying to reconcile this with what I said earlier about dreams only being actual dreams when you lose yourself to deep sleep the rest while entertaining are not actual dreams because they have been influenced by the events in daily life. How it all fits together or if there has been new discoveries Im not aware of.
 
Kitty Chan said:
When these dreams are stopped are you in the Deep sleep (REM) or is it before you wake or just as you go asleep? .
Sorry to jump in here late, but REM is not deep sleep. We initially start with stage 1 (light sleep), go into deeper stages from 1 to 4 and then back up to what would normally be 1, light sleep again. But we go into REM instead. Our eyes show rapid eye movements under the lids and our brains show EEG activity characteristic of a person awake.
When we go into dreams right off in stage 1 upon first going to sleep, we get hypnogic experiences. You dream that you''re awake, but you're not. Same with just before you wake up. These are hypnopompic experiences. They are stage 1 (light sleep) phenomena.
I've never had any of these, but my wife has, and I believe her.
 
When I was younger, I read (or possibly was told, but it doesn't really matter) that you could control your dreams if you realised that you were dreaming. Thinking of this, as I was going to sleep every night, I would repeat to myself "Am I asleep?", and thus reply "no". My theory was, if I did this enough, I would continue to repeat it to myself after I had fallen asleep, and would then be able to answer "yes". It seemed to work, because for a long time I often had dreams that I could control, to some extent or another. For example, I could make people I knew appear (;)), and other objects. I once wanted a missile launcher, so I thought "I have a missile launcher", and it appeared. Unfortunatly, I can never fire weapons in my dreams. For some reason the triggers are always really stiff, and don't work right.

These kinds of dreams have stopped now that I more grown, and I can not remember my dreams as often as I once did.

I find that my 'best' dreams are during the late morning, if I am asleep with the sun shining on me, making me very hot. For some reason I always have interesting, and very vivid dreams, at times like this.

I have also had some really odd dreams. Once I was dreaming that I was at school (high school at that time), and was being taught etc just like real school. Then I woke up, and had to go to school. It was very odd, and I was annoyed at my dream that I had to go to school twice in the same day.

Another dream of mine, I dreamed that there was the brother of a friend of mine with me. I realised that I was dreaming, and tried to convince him that he was, for some reason, in my dream. But he refused to believe me. Very odd...

By far my most favourite dream was a fairly recent one, in which I was fighting against a hoard of Undead. Some kind of Zombie like thing, as well as evel 'Nightmare' like dogs (as in, the evil horse) and other abominations. I knew that, for some reason, if you were wounded by a Zombie, you would turn into one of them. I fought them for a while, and finally I was 'turned' (during this time, the coolest phrases I've come up with appeared..."The Axe must Fall" and "The Blood must Flow"...;) ), and then became an evil Zombie, running around the world killing the 'good' people and making them more Zombies. It was a great bloody dream, kind of like a computer game mixed in with a movie, and it lasted for ages. It was also interesting playing the 'bad' guy, for once.

Unfortunatly, I don't have dreams like that often. My brother tells me that he often has strange and interesting dreams. For example, he once traveled to another planet that was alive, and he had a huge debate with it about the meaning of life. (?!) He tells me that he often has dreams where he meets aliens, and travels to other dimensions. I wish I had dreams like that :(.

I think that creative dreaming can come from external sources (as my brother reads a lot, maintly SciFi), and I think that reading books and/or watching movies right before you go to sleep can help you have interesting dreams.

I'm not sure how relevant all this is, but I think it would neat if we could discover what it is that makes us have strange and interesting dreams, and thus everyone could have movie like dreams, all the time. There would be a lot less sexual crimes, if that were the case. Want to rape someone? Just dream about it ;).
 
Kitty Chan said:
gnome

What Im also wondering then what would be the difference between this and day dreaming ? Other than the obvious laying down and sleeping.

Important differences:

1- you're actually getting rest, so it's like getting more entertainment in your life without losing sleep.

2 - With daydreaming I have to imagine EVERYTHING that happens. In one of these "lucid" dreams there are unexpected stimuli.

Personally I think that most dreams are a random collection of stimuli that your brain tries to make sense of by fitting into a timeline.

I also half suspect that the ones you remember happen almost instantaneously as you wake.
 
I also half suspect that the ones you remember happen almost instantaneously as you wake.
That's an interesting idea. I remember once that I had what seemed a very long dream in what turned out to be a 60 second or so time span. Darned I can't remember the dream though. Most dreams seem "1:1".

I'm pretty skeptical, and I can control some dreams so it must not have much to do with belief or not.
Humm, practice? I went through some RL problems where I started dreaming of falling from a great height. I'd wake up when I went splat. (Nice, I guess those are nightmares). One night I flew instead of going splat. I can do that at will now, but don't have the falling dreams as much either. (The nightmare gods are pissed?) I tried drowning next, but I can breathe underwater now too (Yeah, analyze me at will) :D

I have another variation where I am falling or drowning but have people with me I can't save. (Sweet, get that couch ready).

Anyway, the Japanese device sounds like it makes specific claims we could test by experiment. I skeptical about the "timer" thing, I would think it would need to know when you began the various states.
 
flyboy217 said:
[sarcasm]

If only there were such things as lucid dreams.

If only it were possible to learn to have them.

[/sarcasm]

I suppose this is an in-joke from another thread.

Was someone suggesting that lucid dreams did not exists or that it were not possible to learn to have them?
 
Regarding lucid dreaming. I had a sociology professor in college that had us do a number of very cool things; one of those things was a technique to achieve lucid dreaming, which I did.

I'll explain how it was done here. I've told other people how to do this, and it's worked for them. The average time seems pretty short...though it took me a few weeks. (Many people have done this in days, so perhaps I was just 'slow' ;)) Though some others in the class never managed to do it, most were quicker than I.

This is just from memory, I'm sure he explained it much better, but I've told other people this, and it's seemed to work for them, so it's a good enough explaination I guess. :D

Look at your hand, the back of your hand as it faces you. Study it. Don't concentrate really hard or anything, just stay focused that when you're dreaming you want to try to look at your hand. Say in your mind as you do this something like "Okay this is what I want to do in my dream, I want to see my hand".

Do this randomly throughout the day as you remember to do it, or when you think of it. Spend a couple minutes doing it. Then spend several minutes doing it each night before you go to sleep.

Now you can read on for what will happen, or you can be surprised. (The professor let us be surprised, and didn't tell us what would happen. Which was kinda cool.)













SPOILER AHOY!

What ends up happening is in your dream at some point in time after doing this (took me a couple weeks) you'll see your hand, and remember "OH! I'm supposed to look at my hand!" At that moment you will become lucid in the dream. In other words you're conscious, but still dreaming.

I still can remember vividly what happened for me when this occurred. I was walking up a staircase in a courthouse. I looked and saw my hand on the railing and thought "YES! I did it!!! I'm supposed to see my hand" and then realized that I was dreaming, yet completely aware. I touched the stone wall, which was cool and hard...just like stone. I was amazed that it was so real. I touched the wood of the railing, and it too felt very real. I looked around at the other people, and again, it was all very real, yet I knew it was a dream. The awareness seemed to last subjectively only a few minutes, then I fell back into the dream, and was no longer consciously aware, but merely dreaming as normal.

When I woke up, I recalled it, and also falling back into the dream. It was pretty neat.

I was told that basically continuing to do that, and by staying focused you could achieve long periods of lucidity and even dream control (where you could control the enviroment, or themes, basically be a god of the dreamworld or whatever lol). I know people who have said that they do so. However at the time (I was young), I was concerned about some things, and had no answers (actually still don't have any). I think that in dreaming our subconscious works out a lot of kinks. I've gotten good insight from my dreams...not in a woo-woo way, but in a 'hmm that's a different way of looking at that issue' sort of way. Obviously not ALL the time or anything either. Anyway, I wondered if someone was able to achieve a constant lucid state, would that somehow effect that process? I don't know. Perhaps people still have dreams in which they have no control, and only remember those in which they do. So that was one concern.

Another is it's an awful lot of work, and I enjoy the random patterns of dreams, the surprise, and the interesting things that my subconscious comes up with that I don't think my conscious mind could. :)

As I've gotten older, I also notice that I remember fewer dreams. Unless I wake up in the middle of one, or it's especially vivid in some fashion, I don't usually remember it. Even then, I often forget it shortly after waking anyway, unless it really stands out.

It was an interesting experience though, and I thought it was pretty cool to touch objects and was amazed at the realism. (I guess somehow I expected it to be different hehe). And perhaps it's something that other people would be interested in trying. It can also be effective in breaking chronic nightmares, in that if someone can alter the events of the chronic nightmare and change it, it often no longer bothers them.

A friend of mine is working on that right now actually. She's pregnant and is having a chronic nightmare in which she drives away abandoning her son. She believes that the dream is (in essense) about her concern that her son will feel left out with the new baby. But even after addressing those concerns, the nightmare was happening every night, disprupting her sleep and severely upsetting her. I told her about lucid dreaming and what I had learned about it, and she was able to do it in 3 nights. (Told you I was slow heh) and though she too was only briefly lucid, it gave her a sense of control. She feels if she can alter the pattern (such as going back to her son) it will resolve the nightmares completely. I haven't talked with her in a couple weeks about it, so I'm not sure where she's at with it, or if she's accomplished that or not. However even just gaining that consciousness helped tremendously, because it gave her a sense of control.

Because it is, after all, just a dream. :)
 

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