Moderated Coin Flipper

[Foster Zygote]

I got you, fam:



This entire debate then revolve around trying to figure out what Leumas thinks he means by "random coin tosses never really asymptotically approach a deterministic 50-50 result", and what he thinks acbytesla's actual claim was.

It seems like pretty much all of us except Leumas understand acbytesla to mean that the cumulative ratio of results asymptotically approaches 50:50, the more flips you do.

Leumas seems to be assuming that acbytesla meant something else.

So pretty much what I figured. He's trying to use a flawed simulation to disprove something that no one ever claimed. Namely that after enough truly random coin tosses, the number of heads would exactly equal the number of tails. He doesn't know enough about statistics to understand that as more and more discrete results are added to the sample, the actual numerical difference will virtually certainly grow larger, while the statistical difference will push out to further and further decimal places. The difference could be 1,000,000 more heads than tails. But if the total number of flips was 10,000,000,000,000, then the statistical difference is only 0.00001% in favor of heads.

So... strawman, QED, wily, yadda yadda yadda...

 

[Myriad]

So pretty much what I figured. He's trying to use a flawed simulation to disprove something that no one ever claimed. Namely that after enough truly random coin tosses, the number of heads would exactly equal the number of tails. He doesn't know enough about statistics to understand that as more and more discrete results are added to the sample, the actual numerical difference will virtually certainly grow larger, while the statistical difference will push out to further and further decimal places. The difference could be 1,000,000 more heads than tails. But if the total number of flips was 10,000,000,000,000, then the statistical difference is only 0.00001% in favor of heads.

So... strawman, QED, wily, yadda yadda yadda...

As with his issue with how the convergence of the mean toward 50% heads is defined. He isn't claiming that the behavior of a large number of fair flips, individually or collectively, will be any different from what everyone else is saying it is. Just that he doesn't like using the word "converge" to mean what it means, because ZOMG that would be determinism! and who cares about the foundations of whole realms of mathematics when personal preference is at stake?

He must have been fun in middle school math class!

"So, we can write the equation for a line in slope-intercept form, as long as it's not parallel to the y axis..."

"But what if it IS parallel to the y axis? What then? Huh? Huh?"

"In that case the slope is undefined, but we can use..."

"UNDEFINED! So you admit algebra is all just made-up nonsense! QED!!!!"

 

[jsfisher]

He must have been fun in middle school math class!

"So, we can write the equation for a line in slope-intercept form, as long as it's not parallel to the y axis..."

"But what if it IS parallel to the y axis? What then? Huh? Huh?"

"In that case the slope is undefined, but we can use..."

"UNDEFINED! So you admit algebra is all just made-up nonsense! QED!!!!"

This made me chuckle and be sad at the same time.

 

[theprestige]

"So you concede your nefarious stratagem to perpetuate the arrant nonsense of perfidious algebra!"

 

[Leumas]

n.m.

No Planet X option. And come on, that's an inexcusable omission ITT.

This guy can't tell carrot from kumquat. I'm done.

He's a wonderful example of the Dunning Kruger effect though.....

You are doing nothing like "Empirical Experimentations"....Your program is faulty in that it...Worse, yet, your program is totally unnecessary....

Four words quoted out of context. You are posting

I got you, fam:
...It seems like pretty much all of us except Leumas understand....

So... strawman, QED, wily, yadda yadda yadda...

WOW....


Thanks guys... really appreciate this latest tour de force in demonstrating... well... QED!!!

Coin Flipper V5 and its accompanying Coin Flipper Game must have evoked lots of concerted concerns for such a concerted tour de force of concerns

Thanks guys for letting me know

[IMGW=400]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/CoinFlipperGame2.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=600]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/CoinFlipperGame.png[/IMGW]​

 

[Leumas]

"UNDEFINED! So you admit algebra is all just made-up nonsense! QED!!!!"

No Myriad... what is made up nonsense is comparing deterministic line formulas to to probability distribution formulas about random events... and then admitting that

So? I haven't calculated it ....

But yet doing all you can to deride any Empirical Experimentation to test your MISCONSTRUING of the meaning of the 300 years old theorem which

... only makes sense if one has a fundamental misunderstanding of what randomness actually is...

 

[Foster Zygote]

WOW....


Thanks guys... really appreciate this latest tour de force in demonstrating... well... QED!!!

Coin Flipper V5 and its accompanying Coin Flipper Game must have evoked lots of concerted concerns for such a concerted tour de force of concerns

Thanks guys for letting me know

[IMGW=400]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/CoinFlipperGame2.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=600]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/CoinFlipperGame.png[/IMGW]​

Are you saying you have a gambling problem? No, seriously. What are you saying? What do you think the above post is proving?

 

[Foster Zygote]

But yet doing all you can to deride any Empirical Experimentation to test your MISCONSTRUING of the meaning of the 300 years old theorem which

Your little game app isn't even remotely close to an empirical experiment. It's a toy, FFS.

 

[jt512]

[posted in error]

 

[Thermal]

Are you saying you have a gambling problem? No, seriously. What are you saying? What do you think the above post is proving?

Earlier, he mentioned he was actively monitoring visitors on his coin flipping website, and encouraged everyone to sit there and flip his virtual coins for no particular benefit. For some reason, he really really wants people clicking on his website. When not many showed interest in pretending to flip coins indefinitely, he then tried to make a game of it to pique interest. I find it all a little disturbing.

 

[Wudang]

I have no emotional concern. I'm a software engineer who can take a look at your RNGs, see that they're bollocks and on that basis dismiss your code. Some who aren't programmers might think there's some value in your code but it's IOTTMCO that you don't grasp the difference between pseudo random and random which renders the rest of your code, such as it is, of little value. It's a well known issue in CS.
Your little routine is not even wrong. You're doing the equivalent of writing some code to try to add 2 numbers, using it to add 1 and 1, getting 3 and claiming addition is wrong.

 

[Dr.Sid]

I have no emotional concern. I'm a software engineer who can take a look at your RNGs, see that they're bollocks and on that basis dismiss your code. Some who aren't programmers might think there's some value in your code but it's IOTTMCO that you don't grasp the difference between pseudo random and random which renders the rest of your code, such as it is, of little value. It's a well known issue in CS.
Your little routine is not even wrong. You're doing the equivalent of writing some code to try to add 2 numbers, using it to add 1 and 1, getting 3 and claiming addition is wrong.

Not really. He made a code which says 1+1=2 .. and he says: Ha ! QED !

 

[jimbob]

Not really. He made a code which says 1+1=2 .. and he says: Ha ! QED !

1+1=2.0001
I think

 

[Leumas]

I have no emotional concern. I'm a software engineer...

Ironically... the above assertions are arrantly and definitively belied by the ones below... QED!!!

...who can take a look at your RNGs, see that they're bollocks and on that basis dismiss your code. Some who aren't programmers might think there's some value in your code but it's IOTTMCO that you don't grasp the difference between pseudo random and random which renders the rest of your code, such as it is, of little value. It's a well known issue in CS.
Your little routine is not even wrong. You're doing the equivalent of writing some code to try to add 2 numbers, using it to add 1 and 1, getting 3 and claiming addition is wrong.

 

[Leumas]

Not really. He made a code which says 1+1=2 .. and he says: Ha ! QED !

1+1=2.0001
I think

Thanks guys for that demonstration of the extent of concern you are having in deriding the code with such incessant persistent emotional fervor... I really appreciate your affirming efforts... they just go to prove further... well... QED!!!

 

[Dr.Sid]

To prove further .. well .. what ?

 

[jimbob]

Thanks guys for that demonstration of the extent of concern you are having in deriding the code with such incessant persistent emotional fervor... I really appreciate your affirming efforts... they just go to prove further... well... QED!!!

I never said I was uninterested. I said that I couldn't see the point in a flawed experiment with a non-random process in order to try to learn something about a random process that has been well-understood for over three centuries.

And yes it is non-random - because you shuffled the cards randomly, turned them face up, then used a predetermined process to select the cards, and repeated that process using to pick the cards multiple times without shuffling the deck again.

 

[Leumas]

I never said I was uninterested. I said that I couldn't see the point in a flawed experiment with a non-random process in order to try to learn something about a random process that has been well-understood for over three centuries.

And yes it is non-random - because you shuffled the cards randomly, turned them face up, then used a predetermined process to select the cards, and repeated that process using to pick the cards multiple times without shuffling the deck again.

Yet again the above proves that you are either unwilling to read the code or are unable to read the code... or both... and not even the many description I gave of it... yet you feel no compunction in ASSUMING and presuming arrantly wrongly what it does.

Thanks... for that repeated demonstration of ... well... QED!!!

 

[Leumas]

Empirical Experimentation

In any case... regardless of the contempt and slander... it is now evident that Coin Flipper V5 and its accompanying Coin Flipper Game have evoked extreme emotions and fervent opposition to its ability to provide Empirical Data that rive asunder the faith in bare assertions that are arrantly wrong and utterly baseless save only upon

... a fundamental misunderstanding of what randomness actually is....

[IMGW=350]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/CoinFlipper5.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=400]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/CoinFlipperGame2.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=600]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/CoinFlipperGame.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=700]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/EmpiricalData 1.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=700]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/EmpiricalData 2.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=700]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/EmpiricalData 3.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=700]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/EmpiricalData 4.png[/IMGW]

[IMGW=700]http://godisadeadbeatdad.com/CoinFlipperImages/EmpiricalData 5.png[/IMGW]

​

 

[Wudang]

My contempt is directed at your coding and grasp of basic statistics and inability to learn. A few people here have attempted to educate you despite your hostile attitude.
Once again, your program demonstrates nothing other than weaknesses in your PRNGs.
I know little of you as a person, only your online persona.