Children seeing auras

Ed said:
http://www.nei.nih.gov/health/glaucoma/glaucoma_facts.htm#8

Normal

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Glaucoma

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That's interesting!

I'm just back from taking my Mum to the optician. She's had glaucoma for 20 years and has just conceded the need for a lit-up lens contraption as a reading aid. The optician said her vision was better than he'd expected under the circumstances but one eye is pretty hazy and her vision field isn't good.

I hadn't realised that the "tunnel vision" effect could look like an aura, but I see it can. She also reports odd flashes of light from time to time, or shadows where there aren't any. Disappointingly, she's never ascribed any of this to paranormal activity.

Her optician took one look at her about 20 years ago and "sent her ass to an ophthalmologist" PDQ. Thanks to various eye drops and surgery, she can still see not too badly at the age of 87. I dread to imagine what would have happened if she'd thought she was seeing auras and not been treated. Actually, I know what would have happened. She'd be blind.

By the way, Carla, "phenomena" is a plural word. The singular form is "phenomenon".

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe,

By the way, Carla, "phenomena" is a plural word. The singular form is "phenomenon".

This is what happens when you rely on spell check to much.

As an aisde, the paomnnehil pweor of the hmuan mnid.

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Blodoy amzanig huh?
 
carla said:
Rolfe,

By the way, Carla, "phenomena" is a plural word. The singular form is "phenomenon".

This is what happens when you rely on spell check to much.

As an aisde, the paomnnehil pweor of the hmuan mnid.

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Blodoy amzanig huh?

Is anyone else getting a bit sick of seeing that? Can we get back to the auras and the children.

Please. Won't someone think of the children. And their auras.
 
carla said:
geni,



Very good question! Where does the energy come from that keeps life forms alive?

In the case of non photosynersing species by eating things which can be converted to lower energy states. In the case of green plants and other things that can photosynthsize photons. If you are suggesting that this is the source of energy behind araus then it's not going to work because you would be putting out more energy than was taken in. Further questions:

How do 7 year olds see auras? There are plenty of machines aroung that are far more sensertive to light than any human. these do not detect aruas. Photons of pretty much any energy level can be dected as very low levels.

The standard modle of physics alows for the following fundimental particles:
simplemodel2.gif

Along with their respective antiparticles. Since something has to travle from the person to the observer which of these particles is it made up from?

Do viruses have auras?
 
carla said:
This is what happens when you rely on spell check to much.

As an aisde, the paomnnehil pweor of the hmuan mnid.

Nothing paranormal about it.

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Blodoy amzanig huh?

We've got at least three threads on this and I tend to write like that all the time anyway.
 
geni said:


(snip)
Do viruses have auras?

Well, of course viruses would have auras. They too are living beings. But they must have darker auras. Which is why when someone is sick, you can see that the light from him/her has dimmed... it's an optical illusion. In fact the wattage of "aura" light has increased with the additional life forms inhabiting the space within one's body... but the "dark" energy/aura emissions of the viruses are overpowering the lighter tones of a person's regular aura. So it appears that "the light" has dimmed in them.

Speaking of dim...


How is it that children (or anybody) who have auras themselves are able to see the auras of others? Or, more to the point, if the viewer has the power to be entuned to the aura of others... then it stands to reason that they have a pretty strong aura themselves. Which, if it surrounds their body, must be a blinding light in front of their eyes... blocking their field of vision completely. At the very least, it would be like having rose-colored glasses on and trying to distinguish the glow of a rose-colored light from behind someone else. How exactly do 2-7 year olds accomplish this amazing visual feat/filter?

yeah, huh... how 'bout that?
 
Geni,

All that you are highlighting is that currently accepted “Science” is unable to explain the phenomenon. This does mean that aura cannot exist, because you are stuck with the claim of many that the phenomenon is there, and you cannot state that the people claiming to see aura are incorrect, as ‘Science” has yet to discover and explain all phenomena.

No I wasn’t suggesting that the energy from an aura is sourced by the conversions of foods, perhaps there are other dimensions to living forms that we have yet to discover, or at least fully understand. Eastern science teaches that there is an entire network of energy channels in the human body, and practices such as acupuncture utilise some of these energy paths. If there is indeed a channel of energy paths in the human body, then by utilising an appropriate means we should be able to visualize it.

As for machines detecting aura, one of the interesting aspects of aura is that people who can see them, can also see them in photos and other transmitted images. This suggests that the machine is transmitting the data, but that the “eye” needs to be trained to view.
 
Originally posted by carla
Geni,

All that you are highlighting is that currently accepted “Science” is unable to explain the phenomenon. This does mean that aura cannot exist, because you are stuck with the claim of many that the phenomenon is there, and you cannot state that the people claiming to see aura are incorrect, as ‘Science” has yet to discover and explain all phenomena.

The "Claim" has merit because science has yet to discover and explain all phenomena? That contention is absurd on it's face. Your statement leads off by making the assumption that the existance of an "aura" is subject to a vote of some sort. The simple fact is that there is no objective evidence for what you claim. As wiith so much in the world of woo, a clear demonstration is all that is required. At that point we can start worrying about sciences' shortfalls.

No I wasn’t suggesting that the energy from an aura is sourced by the conversions of foods, perhaps there are other dimensions to living forms that we have yet to discover, or at least fully understand.

Perhaps. Is there any evidence for this conjecture?

Eastern science teaches that there is an entire network of energy channels in the human body, and practices such as acupuncture utilise some of these energy paths.

Any evidence for this? BTW, science is science.

If there is indeed a channel of energy paths in the human body, then by utilising an appropriate means we should be able to visualize it.

If.

As for machines detecting aura, one of the interesting aspects of aura is that people who can see them, can also see them in photos and other transmitted images. This suggests that the machine is transmitting the data, but that the “eye” needs to be trained to view.

Stuff and nonsense. Are you claiming that there are physical properties of photographic materials that are unknown? Is there a shred of evidence for this contention? Until this can be demonstrated rigourously all you have is a story.

 
carla,

Can we stick to one claim at a time? One per thread? Leave meridians, and just tell me whether your "aura-seeing" friends can see aura's in a darkened room. If not, why not?

And can you provide any more info on "seeing auras in photographs"?
 
carla said:
Eastern science teaches that there is an entire network of energy channels in the human body, and practices such as acupuncture utilise some of these energy paths.
There is no such thing as "eastern science". These teachings are not based on observations but are pure speculations.


As for machines detecting aura, one of the interesting aspects of aura is that people who can see them, can also see them in photos and other transmitted images.
The implication is obvious: the people who can see auras on photos probably have glaucoma!
 
carla said:
Geni,

All that you are highlighting is that currently accepted “Science” is unable to explain the phenomenon. This does mean that aura cannot exist, because you are stuck with the claim of many that the phenomenon is there, and you cannot state that the people claiming to see aura are incorrect, as ‘Science” has yet to discover and explain all phenomena.

Google CERN.
[/quote]
No I wasn’t suggesting that the energy from an aura is sourced by the conversions of foods, perhaps there are other dimensions to living forms that we have yet to discover, or at least fully understand.[/quote]

Easy to test. Is earth orbit remotly stable? Answer yes well that rules out more than three dimentions (Orbits are not stable in more than three dimentions).


Eastern science teaches that there is an entire network of energy channels in the human body, and practices such as acupuncture utilise some of these energy paths. If there is indeed a channel of energy paths in the human body, then by utilising an appropriate means we should be able to visualize it.

There isn't.


As for machines detecting aura, one of the interesting aspects of aura is that people who can see them, can also see them in photos and other transmitted images. This suggests that the machine is transmitting the data, but that the “eye” needs to be trained to view.

The eye can detect photons that is all. I would suggest you staop and think about what it would mean if fundimental particles existed beside those I listed.
 
carla said:


Scientific Evidence in Support of Acupuncture and Meridian Theory
http://www.healthy.net/aaabem/ieee1.htm

Nope. Pseudoscientific crap masquerading as "science".

What many people who believe in various "unusual" theories don't seem to be aware of, is that the so called "scientific" evidence which they think proves their case, is usually complete rubbish, with no "science" in it at all. To someone who is not properly trained in any particular field of science, complicated scientific sounding papers or scientific style language can give the impression that science is being done. But those who truly understand the real science involved can see through these things usually quite easily. And there is the problem. The non scientists CAN'T see how ridiculous most of this material really is and they think that scientists are being narrow minded or unreasonable. But if they bothered to learn some proper science themselves, they would see it for themselves.

For example. If someone claimed that all objects fall UPWARDS when dropped, then any reasonable or sensible person would say, "Hang on a moment! Things fall DOWN when dropped, not up!" And if that person continued to claim that, everyone would just laugh, shake their heads and walk away because it would be obvious to all that what the person was saying isn't true. That is the level of some of these so called "scientific" papers. The errors are so obvious to any real scientist that they don't need to make detailed investigations to see that these things are rubbish. But they are not so obvious to laypeople.

The paper you quote above contains some ridiculous errors, obvious to anyone with scientific knowledge. Without that knowledge it probably looks impressive to the uninformed. I'll point out just one or two examples below.

Here is a quote from the paper:

There are some variations in the construction and performance of EDSDs, but all share the same basic design (Fig. 3). The core of the EDSD is an ohm meter designed to deliver approximately 10-12 microamperes of direct electrical current at 1-1.25 volts, a perfectly safe amount. (The ionization potential of hydrogen atoms is 1.36 volts; only at this level and above could any physical damage occur.)

Here it is addressing an EAV device. I've seen the circuits for these things. Firstly there is no regulated control of voltage. Which means that changes in skin impedance (which is what it is supposed to measure) will make significant changes to current flow and readings. This sounds O.K. until you realise that ambient electrical noise on the skin can easily vary by several volts, much HIGHER than the applied voltage. This noise comes from the external environment and has nothing to do with the body itself. And this directly affects the readings. Then there is the well known effect of the pressure of the skin contacts which makes an enormous variation. The paper also mentions using dissimilar metals for the probes which results in electrochemical action (the probes act like a battery in contact with skin). The skin impedance varies with sweating and even with emotional states to some extent. And running even a small current through the skin causes electrochemical changes which will bias and distort the next reading. In fact, due to the latter, it is extremely likely that this will give the appearance of "lines" or "meridians" of altered electrical states. Just simple electrochemistry, no special "meridians" required. Of course, if this happens, there will be many more "points" than the old acupuncture charts show, and the "points" will probably not correspond with those charts. There are many other factors as well. In short there are so many sources of obvious error it requires absolute blindness to believe for one moment that there is anything valid or objective about this. But the clincher, the PROOF that the author is talking pseudoscientific rubbish lies in the last sentence of the quote above:

The ionization potential of hydrogen atoms is 1.36 volts

It was all sounding so professional until this lemon! The ionization potential of a LONE hydrogen atom (note, not a hydrogen molecule, or hydrogen bound to other atoms in other molecules) is 13.6 ELECTRONVOLTS. What does that mean? An electronvolt is a measure of ENERGY, it is NOT a voltage! There is no way you could simply equate that to a voltage, and even if you could, it would only apply to free atomic hydrogen (a disassociated gas) in free space, not hydrogen in a body. And most atoms have first ionization energies well below this. So even if what they said was true (and it isn't) and ionization is a measure of "safety" then this would prove that the device was UNSAFE by their own criteria. So here is the definitive proof that the authors are talking rubbish about things they don't understand.

Let's look at another quote:

Voll expanded upon traditional acupuncture point classification in three directions: by discovering unknown meridians (which he referred to as "systems"), unknown points on traditional meridians, and unknown functions of existing points.

Remember what I said above? "Of course, if this happens, there will be many more "points" than the old acupuncture charts show, and the "points" will probably not correspond with those charts." And here is the proof. The points "measured" by this technique do NOT correspond with the traditional "meridians".

Next quote:

Reagent samples in sealed glass containers are placed within the circuit of the measurement by placing them on the metal plate designed for this purpose.

A "reagent" is placed on a metal plate which is connected to one wire of the probes. This does not constitute placing "within the circuit". There is no connection whatsoever to the electrical circuit. Complete rubbish. And glass is one of the best insulators known in any event.

Next quote:

Homeopathic remedies serve as particularly useful reagents for medicine testing because they are prepared at various dilutions, which increases the likelihood of finding an appropriate "resonance," a phenomenon which Kuo-Gen Chen describes in the third article of this series as "bio-informational quantum interference."

There is no proof of homeopathy. In fact, homeopathy has been disproved countless times. One of the reasons why it is not accepted is because no proof can be shown that ANYTHING can distinguish one alleged "homeopathic" sample from another. So if this machine can do just that, then why don't any homeopaths use it as the proof they need? Simple answer, because it doesn't work! That's why. And it is a favorite of medical fraudsters to introduce "quantum mechanics" into their crazy speculations. None of these people have the faintest idea about quantum mechanics - but neither does the public which is why they use it to fool people. But the appearance of the word "quantum" in connection with some alleged miracle machine is one of the surest signs of fraud and quackery.

Last quote:

Acupuncture has been used for thousands of years and is effective in a wide range of situations. It has not been integrated into modern health care primarily because of lingering suspicions that it is not scientific. A bio-energetic model has been developed to explain nearly all aspects of acupuncture and meridian theory, but there remains a definite prejudice against human energetic theories in the medical-scientific community, which must be overcome before integration can take place.

And is the above surprising when people like these try to pull an outright fraud by misrepresenting science as "proof" of the above?

As I said, the reason why things like this are NOT accepted by scientists is because these people have no idea what real science is! They come up with rubbish that can be easily disproved in moments and then wonder why real scientists are not fooled. The answer is simple, real scientists are not so easy to fool as lay people.
 
carla said:
Geni,

All that you are highlighting is that currently accepted “Science” is unable to explain the phenomenon. This does mean that aura cannot exist, because you are stuck with the claim of many that the phenomenon is there, and you cannot state that the people claiming to see aura are incorrect, as ‘Science” has yet to discover and explain all phenomena.
...
Unfortunately pseudoscience is yet to demonstrate the existence of the phenomenon nor produce someone who can repeatedly demonstrate their viewing of aura.

In a scientifically controlled test, of course...

COULD your friend detect whether someone was behind a screen or not, merely based on their "viewing" of the presence/lack of presence of an aura?
 
Nigel said:
Just for good measure, I'll ask my six year old daughter tonight and post a followup.
Now that I've finally had a chance to ask my daughter, and mainly just to do what I said I'd do, here's my follow up.

Negative. She said she could see colors, but the yellow was from a nearby cd case, and blue was from a shirt. No aura.
 
I have had detailed conversations with three people I know can see aura.

Can an aura been see in darkness? – yes.

Can an aura be seen behind a screen, e.g. if someone was coming through a door, but the body was not yet visible? – yes.

Is the view of aura always on? No, it is turned on and off. One person likened it the viewing 3D images, it is a way of looking that you don’t normally employ. They also state that it is not normally something they do unless requested by the person as it can be invasive. There are many dimensions to an aura including physical, mental and spiritual. So for example, if someone is hiding something, then this is reflected in the aura.

All three people also advise that aura also appear around electrical equipment, so if a person is sitting in front of a computer then they will see the aura of the person and the aura of the equipment, but their ability to see the complexities of the persons aura is diminished by the presences of the electrical equipment. So viewing a persons aura in an office or room with a lot of electrical equipment is significantly more difficult that in a natural setting.

The ability to visualise electrical fields may be a clue as to what the phenomena is.

Why aren’t any of these people interested in participating in scientific experiments? All three simply state that they are not interested. One also made the observation that their abilities can be dependant on how receptive the person being viewed is, and can be hampered by the presence of a lot of negative thinking people.

Regarding scientific evidence then perhaps I used a bad example, happy to admit that. That is what should come out of a forum. But does this bad example demonstrate that the human body does not have an energy body comprising energy paths, energy centers and generally radiating an energy field. I don’t think so. The population that subscribes to the theory far exceeds those who don’t because it cannot currently be measured or seen. This does not mean it is not there, this creates a challenge to science to explain the widely reported phenomena.

There is no proof of homeopathy” Blanket statements like this do nothing to further a rational discussion. How many examples of science being incorrect in the past would you like me to give. In the 1850’s London was gripped by cholera epidemics. The scientist of the day insisted that it was an air borne disease, stating that there was no proof that it was water borne to those that proposed it. What makes you think that we currently know everything? The more correct statement is that proof of homeopathy has been presented, that it has not been accepted by mainstream science, but there is a considerable body of research related to the subject that continues to be undertaken.

Don’t like my answers or are skeptical, tell someone who cares.

Wish to continue with a rational discussion on what the phenomena may be, happy to participate.
 
carla said:
I have had detailed conversations with three people I know can see aura.
Are all three of these people opposed to the idea of being tested, if there was the possibility of a million bucks reward for simply doing what they already claim they can do?

Have they tried testing themselves under controlled conditions?
 
Carla,

Can an aura been see in darkness? – yes
Great - this is a sound basis for a simple and easy protocol that, if they can actually do this, will definitely win the JREF million (and revise numerous scientific theories).

Better yet, you can arrange to test this at home, in minutes, with little time or effort. Once you've generated clear results that satisfy you, it's no problem to translate this into an applciation for the JREF prize.
 
Regarding whether seeing aura qualifies for the prize, I'l refer you to my posting dated 06-18-2004 10:42 AM.
 

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