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Charlottesville Car Crash Video

Elagabalus said:
Don't intentionally drive into a crowd of baseball bat wielding protesters and kill one of them?
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Yeah, that. I don't get what could be more straightforward than that. He intentionally sped into a group of people with a car. It was murder, plain and simple.
 
uke2se said:
Yeah, that. I don't get what could be more straightforward than that. He intentionally sped into a group of people with a car. It was murder, plain and simple.
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What do you reject about the narrative of scared speeding away after the car is hit by a baseball bat?
 
Elagabalus said:
Don't intentionally drive into a crowd of baseball bat wielding protesters and kill one of them?
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So, that's a good idea of what not to do, but, what would be a good idea of what to do?

What I couldn't tell was what was behind him. If he was not surrounded, then the right answer is put the car in reverse and get the hell out of there. If he was surrounded? I don't see any good options.

Well, that's what we have trials for. The prosecutors will be able to tell whether he had a peaceful option, because they'll spend the time necessary to piece together the various videos and see what really happened. If he was not being threatened at the time he accelerated into the crowd, then it seems like a capital murder case. He killed one during an attempt at mass murder.

If his lawyers can make a case that he had a reasonable fear for his life, then it might be difficult to secure a conviction on anything.
 
Meadmaker said:
So, that's a good idea of what not to do, but, what would be a good idea of what to do?

What I couldn't tell was what was behind him. If he was not surrounded, then the right answer is put the car in reverse and get the hell out of there. If he was surrounded? I don't see any good options.

Well, that's what we have trials for. The prosecutors will be able to tell whether he had a peaceful option, because they'll spend the time necessary to piece together the various videos and see what really happened. If he was not being threatened at the time he accelerated into the crowd, then it seems like a capital murder case. He killed one during an attempt at mass murder.

If his lawyers can make a case that he had a reasonable fear for his life, then it might be difficult to secure a conviction on anything.
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Do not make excuses for Nazi terrorists. He sped into a crowd with a car, killing one and injuring many. He did so intentionally. He was not running from some bad man with a bat. His car was struck after he was already speeding towards the crowd.
 
uke2se said:
Because really, it was the guy with the bat who hit the car so hard that it flew into the crowd.

:crazy:
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No, the guy with the bat was one of the ANTIFA attacking basically anything that moved. You can see from the video that the media shows over and over again that James Fields applied his brakes before hitting the crowd. A terrorist hellbent on destruction isn't going to hit the brakes just as he reaches his target.

What happened as soon as he came to a stop is the key to understanding this situation. This video shows ANTIFA/BLM members immediately descending on the car with clubs. Mr. Fields then backs up and runs over a few of the people who were trying to kill him.

It was an accident. Mr Fields feared for his life. I can't pass judgement on the people who were blocking the road in front of him. But anybody who was injured after he reversed the car deserved what they got. I hope they're permanently disabled and end up having to pay for the damage they did to the Dodge.
 
Oystein said:
People are already fleeing the car before the bat swinger does anything that can be perceived as threatening.
The brake lights are off throughout the clip, which means at no point did the driver react to the fact that pedestrians are blocking the street.
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Not true.

This is clear intention to murder.
The guy who swings the bat (or whatever it is) reacts to a murderous attack in progress. It's perhaps not a useful move, but probably the best he could have done at the moment.
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Clear intent to escape certain death while trying to cause the least damage possible.
 
Elagabalus said:
He's attained a high rate of speed before the baseball bat guy connects with the car.
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What if he claims that he did an initial surge forward to try to convey to the crowd that he meant business and intended to get through, but then when he started getting surrounded and heard his car start getting hit, he panicked and hit the gas?

What if he claims he was unaware of the parked cars up ahead?

What if he points out that all his decisions were informed by seeing vicious, attempted murder style attacks on his group by these same protesters in the hours just prior to this, and that he saw getting stopped while surrounded by these people to be certain death for him?

What if he claims his car had already been surrounded and hit with weapons by a more sparse group of attackers up at the top of the hill? There's a photo of the back of his car before he hit anyone showing damage consistent with that.
 
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CaptainHowdy said:
You can see from the video that the media shows over and over again that James Fields applied his brakes before hitting the crowd. .
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No. I for one can't see that.
Perhaps we are looking at different videos?
Can you post a URL to the video you have in mind, and an exact time stamp when break lights are on?

I looked at the video posted early in the thread over and over, stopping at as short intervals as I manually can, and at no point are the break lights on.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
What if he claims that he did an initial surge forward to try to convey to the crowd that he meant business and intended to get through, but then when he started getting surrounded and heard his car start getting hit, he panicked and hit the gas?...
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People were already fleeing when the passer-by swung the bat.
This means the car was threatening with obvious dangerous speed.

If you wield a gun to intimidate, people react to your violence, and then you do in fact shoot someone, how is the claim that you merely intended to intimidate people a defense??

We can debate the fine details between first and second degree murder and man slaughter, or whatever legales terms Virginia and the US employ.
But this man meant to put terror in the hearts of fellow citizens - BEFORE the bat was swung - and killed someone in the process.


But why am I even talking to a nazi sympathizer...
 
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to be a mob of violent people with weapons, show up to stop a lawful assembly, succeed in that by beating the rally participants horribly and then block the streets, surrounding and menacing cars which seek to pass through.

I'm not even convinced that plowing into such a mob deliberately is immoral, given those circumstances.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Not true.
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I second Oystein's request. The video posted in the OP, at least, does not show the brake lights on at any point.

This is not the result of someone applying their brakes: https://youtu.be/7jGgYM2_Zdk?t=6m21s. In fact, in the second clip (which is the one posted in the OP), you can actually hear the car accelerate just before the impact. The second clip also shows Mr. Fields fleeing from the incident, backing up the way he had come, which is clear of counter-protesters. The man had everywhere else to go if his intention was to avoid hurting anyone.

Nobody, and I mean nobody not intensely interested in constructing an extremely dangerous delusion, can watch these clips and rationalize what they see as "self defense". All of you who are attempting a benefit of the doubt should be utterly ashamed of yourselves. You disgrace and pervert the very notion of rationality.

This was, without the glimmer of a doubt in any reasonable person's mind, a deliberate attempt to injure and/or kill people. There is no reasonable doubt here.
 
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No dog in this fight, but -

ldg2nZv.jpg


He did brake and from the looks of car's posture, possibly swerving to avoid hitting the guy in the green shorts.

Maybe didn't want to kill a white guy. Who knows.
 
AJM8125 said:
No dog in this fight, but -

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/ldg2nZv.jpg[/qimg]

He did brake and from the looks of car's posture, possibly swerving to avoid hitting the guy in the green shorts.

Maybe didn't want to kill a white guy. Who knows.
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Obvious question: at what point in the attack was that picture taken?
 
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