Challenge to William Rodriguez

Hmm what a surprise. I just nicely sent you an email agreeing to do your show without knowing you were challenging me in this forum. Very surprised you went this route. So my offer know is off. For the record, like I said on the e-mail, I happen to like Mr Roberts and remeber meeting him on Ground Zero. Very cordial. also after checking in my past list of media contacts, I found that I sent you an email long time ago when you had Les Jamieson on your show because you lied on the air saying that I did not go to the NIST because all I wanted was money. Wrong approach buddy.



to Ronald Wieck <ronniejames@att.net>
date Apr 29, 2007 4:23 PM
subject Re: Hardfire Appearance
mailed-by gmail.com

Hi, thanks for the invitation. I will love to appear and since my actual agenda is full, I will find a date in the coming weeks to help you. I like Mr. Mark Roberts very much and agree with him in many aspects. It will be a humble honor to have a dialogue with him. what number my organizer should call you at?
William Rodriguez

I don't understand how you can continue to hold your position hostage. As someone who is a celebrity with a controversial viewpoint, you should at least be willing to understand that people are going to disagree with you- and you can't expect the world to act exactly the way you want it to or else you're going to pout.

Ron has been more than fair in his debates- and members of JREF have put forth a lot of effort to make sure the issues are discussed fairly. Yet here you are again holding your position hostage- making demands and telling people how to act.

Frankly- I'm becoming less and less interested in what you have to say.
 
I received an acceptance from Mr. Rodriguez followed, twenty minutes later, by a withdrawal. Obviously, such behavior is pretty routine for twoofers. If you're being asked to defend pernicious falsehoods and bogus science, the prudent course is to avoid anyone likely to ask hard questions. There really was no necessity for anyone to request polite treatment for Rodriguez. My policy is never to attempt to humiliate anyone on the show.

Here is Rodriguez's second e-mail:

"Very surprised of your lack of proffesionalism. I saw your "challenge" on JREF and was indeed surprised after I agreed to appear on your show. I have reached more than 500 million viewers around the world and have been in shows of all kinds but never was actually challenged on an open forum to do YOU a favor. I do not have the time and stamina for this kind of actions. Thanks for your offer and I hope you find others to do your show. "

William Rodriguez


Here is my reply:

Dear Mr. Rodriguez,

As I don't know you, I'll play along and proceed on the assumption that your acceptance was genuine. It is my policy to announce invitations to prospective guests/debaters on the JREF. To heighten interest, I bill these offers as "challenges." It hasn't occurred to anyone, until now, to act offended. What the nature of the offense might be is, of course, impossible to guess.

How gracious of you to do me a favor, if only for twenty minutes! I was under the impression that I was doing one for you. Possibly we could both use some lessons in humility.

You may have noticed that Jim Fetzer showed the courage of his convictions by coming in and defending his views. Many 9/11 conspiracists feign interest only to vanish without further notice, a la Webster Tarpley, or, as in Jim Hoffman's case, they schedule their appearance only to duck out at the last minute. Now, we are supposed to believe that you, for obscure reasons, were so offended by the public announcement of my invitation to you that you just couldn't possibly bear to go on. Uh-huh. Sure. Makes perfect sense.

Apparently, it strikes you as unusual that I would want to advertise my show to its biggest audience. Yeah, that must be it. So, presumably now the playbook calls for you to notify the fantasist community that you bravely accepted my offer, but withdrew twenty minutes later over my lack of "professionalism" in announcing it on the site where I announce ALL my invitations.

Look at the bright side. You're dealing with twoofers: They swallow sillier stuff than that.

Ron Wieck


Now, I'd bet heavily that Rodriguez had no intention of appearing on 'Hardfire.' The "lie" he accuses me of telling during my debate with Les Jamieson is, typically, no lie at all. I had asked Mike Newman of NIST about William Rodriguez. Newman replied that NIST was eager to talk with him, but he proved extremely elusive. He seemed far more interested in grandstanding at hearings than in actually sharing information. According to Newman, Rodriguez had changed his address and refused to respond to NIST's inquiries. If Newman had got anything wrong, Rodriguez had the perfect opportunity to set the record straight. He prefers to act offended over something that is a bit too cryptic to describe in words.

So, can we simply write off William Rodriguez as just another fraud? He will preach to the uncritical choir, but when an opportunity arises to make his case, he conjures up an escape route.

He conjures up an escape route? Yes, he must be some kind of coward :rolleyes:
 
Hmm what a surprise. I just nicely sent you an email agreeing to do your show without knowing you were challenging me in this forum.


Wow! You got here in a hurry.


Very surprised you went this route.



Right, it's downright astonishing that I would want to drum up interest on the site where I hang out, the site that provides the most informed portion of my audience. Admit it: you couldn't keep a straight face when you shoveled this load.

So my offer know is off.


Cheesy, but creative.


For the record, like I said on the e-mail, I happen to like Mr Roberts and remeber meeting him on Ground Zero. Very cordial.


I agree--he really knows his stuff.


also after checking in my past list of media contacts, I found that I sent you an email long time ago when you had Les Jamieson on your show because you lied on the air saying that I did not go to the NIST because all I wanted was money. Wrong approach buddy.



As I am unable to read minds, I can't know if you actually sent me an e-mail. I can state with certainty that I have never received an e-mail from you. Fascinating that you never seem interested in correcting the record.


to Ronald Wieck <ronniejames@att.net>
date Apr 29, 2007 4:23 PM
subject Re: Hardfire Appearance
mailed-by gmail.com

Hi, thanks for the invitation. I will love to appear and since my actual agenda is full, I will find a date in the coming weeks to help you. I like Mr. Mark Roberts very much and agree with him in many aspects. It will be a humble honor to have a dialogue with him. what number my organizer should call you at?
William Rodriguez


Great. We're delighted that you can join us.

Ron
 
William claimed to be having his story twisted by both sides and Ron offeres him a chance to clear the air and tell his story with no spin from either woo or debunker. William has withdrew his offer for reasons only know to himself. I hope he is happy with his choice to let his words be twisted. Unfortunately, toto is correct William. Some day soon, probably by 1/2009 nobody is going to be interested in your words and the historical record will show your words as the woo say they are. You had a chance.
 
He conjures up an escape route? Yes, he must be some kind of coward :rolleyes:


Don't waste everybody's time with such predictable sarcasm. Nobody denies Mr. Rodriguez's heroism on 9/11/01. That is not the issue. He has subsequently lent his name to pernicious and baseless myths that seek to absolve the jihadist murderers of wrongdoing and slander members of the U.S. government.
 
What a punk. If he really had confidence in his story he would be willing to debate. As the 9-11 deniars would ask "What does he have to hide?"
 
Mr. Rodriguez,

Let's try a slightly different approach.

I can't figure out what you're supposed to be offended by, but I won't press you for an explanation.

I will apologize for whatever I did and renew my offer to let you tell your story.
 
Don't waste everybody's time with such predictable sarcasm. Nobody denies Mr. Rodriguez's heroism on 9/11/01. That is not the issue. He has subsequently lent his name to pernicious and baseless myths that seek to absolve the jihadist murderers of wrongdoing and slander members of the U.S. government.

That is not what i'm getting at. The point is your behaviour. Quite frankly it is becoming boring reading your repetitive jargon. On your show you seem like a very nice man... on the web you sound like the typical internet airhead, full of himself with all the patter that comes with it.

"We rationalists will demolish any of the idiot twoofer fantasists arguments. They all see my show 'hardfire' and flee in fright with their tales between their legs."

Ctrl C - Ctrl V


I know noone here denies his heroism on that day. That has nothing to do with it. The fact is its boring hearing you harp on about how everyone is simply to terrified to face you because they simply don't make the journey to appear on your cable show. They are all looking for an escape route, huh?
 
That is not what i'm getting at. The point is your behaviour. Quite frankly it is becoming boring reading your repetitive jargon. On your show you seem like a very nice man... on the web you sound like the typical internet airhead, full of himself with all the patter that comes with it.

"We rationalists will demolish any of the idiot twoofer fantasists arguments. They all see my show 'hardfire' and flee in fright with their tales between their legs."

Ctrl C - Ctrl V


I know noone here denies his heroism on that day. That has nothing to do with it. The fact is its boring hearing you harp on about how everyone is simply to terrified to face you because they simply don't make the journey to appear on your cable show. They are all looking for an escape route, huh?

When the journey is paid for, what is your explanation for these scenarios?
 
When the journey is paid for, what is your explanation for these scenarios?


I have no idea. It is not me doing the travelling. I know people do have tight schedules, families and sometimes people just don't want to go the distance. I have no clue as to what each persons individual reason is. In fact, travel is certainly not the problem in Mr Rodriguezs case.

I am growing weary hearing about how everyone is scared to face Mr Wieck on his show 'Hardfire.' Mr Rodriguez also must be scared, as he is apparantly looking for an escape route. What is he escaping exactly?
Either way - the suggestion that he is somehow a 'fraud' is quite nasty.
 
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It's somewhat extreme to call William a 'punk'.....

I think the main problem here William, is that we are the only people here who are willing to explore, in depth the issues that you have raised, and if they have some strong merit, we would have no issue at all in putting them into a packet of evidence. Ron gave you an opening, he gave you a chance to give us, you and many others a insightful interview on what happened to you that day.

What we are not, are people who will exploit and abuse your position by not seeing anything past something that could be heard as an explosion. We will not immediatly assume a 'boom' was a bomb in order to further our 'cause'. And we will not use your heroic actions as an excuse to get 'one-up' on people who will disagree with us. All these things, are, unfortunatly the product of the truth movement.

Ron did a good thing, and to ignore that would be foolish.

P.S, so sorry to hear about your loss.
 
Dud you see William's initial post in this thread or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

ETA - You are smarter than this...

Enigma - the travel thing was a general reason .. not in the case of NYC local Mr Rodriguez of course. A figure of speech more than anything.
 
That is not what i'm getting at.


Really? Why would you use the word "coward" unless you were attempting to portray me as denigrating Rodriguez's courage?


The point is your behaviour. Quite frankly it is becoming boring reading your repetitive jargon. On your show you seem like a very nice man... on the web you sound like the typical internet airhead, full of himself with all the patter that comes with it.


Your point is well taken. These internet "debates" tend to produce sloppy writing habits. Fast writing is usually bad writing. I know I fall into the habit of employing stock phrases much too often. It does get tiresome to refer constantly to "fantasists" and "conspiracy liars" (although I must confess that I love the phrase). I am, incidentally, a nice man. Ask my dogs.


"We rationalists will demolish any of the idiot twoofer fantasists arguments. They all see my show 'hardfire' and flee in fright with their tales between their legs."


I've never suggested that these guys fear me. I think that they fear Mark, and they should.


Ctrl C - Ctrl V


I know noone here denies his heroism on that day. That has nothing to do with it. The fact is its boring hearing you harp on about how everyone is simply to terrified to face you because they simply don't make the journey to appear on your cable show. They are all looking for an escape route, huh?


The fantasists fear debate, period. They are comfortable endlessly recycling debunked myths to uncritical audiences. I understood Mike Berger when he told me that he lives too far from NYC to appear on the show. My impression was that William Rodriguez lives here.
 
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I appologize for referring to Mr. Rodriguez as a punk. That was wrong. But Mr. Rodriguez, I would really like to see you appear in this debate. It should be informative for us all. There are important questions that need to be answered. Please reconsider.
 

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