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Case Study: The IIG Protocol for VFF

So what. How could she detect a missing kidney if all people had two kidneys?

Specifically because that was her claim. If the 18 people had two kidneys, then her claim and the test would have said exactly that - she would have seen 36 Kidneys because that is exactly how many kidneys there would have been. Her answer would have been "nobody was missing a kidney. They had two each". And she would have passed the test.

How is this so hard for you to understand?

Norm
 
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Oh, come on, ynot! We've been talking about this under the scenario that the IIG made a mistake in stopping the test early. If they don't make a mistake, then none of this ****ing matters. I am not about to spell every little ****ing detail for you in every ****ing post. If you can't keep up, then quit posting.


It doesn't matter unless you want to go for punitive damages, which is a whole other can of worms. Of course, that has nothing to do with whether the IIG should ****ing stop the ****ing test early if the claimant fails a trial.

I give up. I have gone way beyond the call of duty to try to explain this to you. I have given you numerous explanations and analogies. I have given you tons of material to read that I, myself, have read long before we ever discussed this. I have asked you questions, most which you flat out ignored.

That's it. No more. You can go get a law degree, and I still won't give a flying **** what you have to say about the issue.
Tsk, tsk how testy. Temper tantrum of an artistic musician perhaps?

The mistake by the IIG wouldn’t directly stop the test unless it was detected before the answer was given. In this case the test would have had to be conducted again with the mistake rectified given the protocol required three tests to be fully completed. It wouldn’t have been acceptable to forget that test and merely require the successful completion of the other two tests.

If the mistake wasn’t discovered until after the answer was given then the mistake didn’t directly stop the test the wrong answer did.

Why don’t you put me on ignore then announce to the forum that you have done so . That’ll fix me and make you feel better I‘m sure.

ETA - I believe I might have grounds to ask for you suspension but won’t do so because I’m not effected by any amount of abuse from you.
 
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Specifically because that was her claim. If the 18 people had two kidneys, then her claim and the test would have said exactly that - she would have seen 36 Kidneys because that is exactly how many kidneys there would have been. Her answer would have been "nobody was missing a kidney. They had two each". And she would have passed the test.

How is this so hard for you to understand?

Norm
The test wasn’t “does one of these people have a missing kidney”. It was “which of these people has a missing kidney“. The protocol specified and required that one person would have a missing kidney in each test. Even if she had real x-ray vision (that wasn’t perfect) then she may have said that one person had a missing kidney purely because of the pressure put on her to do so and the total expectation that one did have a missing kidney.
 
The test wasn’t “does one of these people have a missing kidney”. It was “which of these people has a missing kidney“.


No, it absolutely was not. You are flat out wrong.

You obviously have no idea what's really going on here, so I'll repeat the advice I gave AvalonXQ...

RTFM. Start from the beginning. Search here at the JREF forum for "VisionfromFeeling". Read all the threads about the claimant, the protocol, and the demonstration. Then go read all the discussions and commentary at the Stop VisionfromFeeling web site. You should also read everything related to the demonstration at this IIG page and its relevant links to familiarize yourself with the actual protocol which is being discussed here. Then go watch the video of the demonstration at USTREAM. And don't forget to read everything at Anita's own web site. You might be able to make a productive contribution to this discussion after you actually have some idea what everyone else here is talking about. Right now you don't, and nobody is going to be able to get you up to speed with some Reader's Digest condensed version. There are no Cliffs Notes.

Now go, ynot, and get to work. People are starting to take you for a troll.
 
No, it absolutely was not. You are flat out wrong.

You obviously have no idea what's really going on here, so I'll repeat the advice I gave AvalonXQ...

RTFM. Start from the beginning. Search here at the JREF forum for "VisionfromFeeling". Read all the threads about the claimant, the protocol, and the demonstration. Then go read all the discussions and commentary at the Stop VisionfromFeeling web site. You should also read everything related to the demonstration at this IIG page and its relevant links to familiarize yourself with the actual protocol which is being discussed here. Then go watch the video of the demonstration at USTREAM. And don't forget to read everything at Anita's own web site. You might be able to make a productive contribution to this discussion after you actually have some idea what everyone else here is talking about. Right now you don't, and nobody is going to be able to get you up to speed with some Reader's Digest condensed version. There are no Cliffs Notes.

Now go, ynot, and get to work. People are starting to take you for a troll.
Did the protocol specify and require that one person in each test only had one kidney? Simple yes or no will do.

Is - “from which side of which person is there a kidney missing” more correct to the protocol?

Haven’t got time to plough through several sites to see if I can find the protocol used. If a copy of the protocol exists online please just provide a link directly to it.
 
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Is - “from which side of which person is there a kidney missing” more correct to the protocol?

Here is the problem. Anita claimed to be able to detect missing kidneys by some sort of "vision", not people who were missing kidneys - speciifaly kidneys, and her claim wa that she could do it all of the time within seconds., Do you understand the difference? THAT is what was tested, and she failed utterly completely and totally.

You seem to be continually trying to push some sort of claim on Anita that she never made. Why?

Norm
 
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This issue really isn’t a major part of my life and I have no agenda or desire to deliberately piss people off. There’s not many active people in this therad but the majority seem to agree more with Yimmy than me. Could be that this means he’s right and I’m wrong or it could be a case of birds of a feather flocking together. Either way I have many more important things to do with my time. I will therefore respectfully back out of this thread bowing deeply as I go. TTFN.
 
There’s not many active people in this therad but the majority seem to agree more with Yimmy than me. Could be that this means he’s right and I’m wrong or it could be a case of birds of a feather flocking together.

No, I'm a total post slut when it comes to a good argument. :D

I'm not sure UY is "right". This is an open discussion about protocol. There's no "right" and "wrong". It's more a matter of informed opinion. You're at a disadvantage being less informed. As am I.
 
This issue really isn’t a major part of my life and I have no agenda or desire to deliberately piss people off. There’s not many active people in this therad but the majority seem to agree more with Yimmy than me. Could be that this means he’s right and I’m wrong or it could be a case of birds of a feather flocking together. Either way I have many more important things to do with my time. I will therefore respectfully back out of this thread bowing deeply as I go. TTFN.

I didn't post in this thread because I've read all of the many VfF threads,all of her claims, all of the SVfF, VfF websites, plus the live streaming video of the IIG demonstration. This has been a long and complicated saga that has gone on for two years so, ynot, you'd have to do all of those things to really debate the IIG protocol and it's end result.
 
I didn't post in this thread because I've read all of the many VfF threads,all of her claims, all of the SVfF, VfF websites, plus the live streaming video of the IIG demonstration. This has been a long and complicated saga that has gone on for two years so, ynot, you'd have to do all of those things to really debate the IIG protocol and it's end result.

In general, AC, I agree. I found it very frustrating that people who did not bother to do any research would be strenuously arguing about what terms Anita would or would not accept, especially when most of the suggestions were already discussed and rejected by her.

However, one need not understand any of that to deal with ynot's assertion that the test should have been stopped after the first failed trial. First, there are logistical problems with bringing the sonogram lady on and off the stage. Second, there's the issue of feedback to Anita that whatever technique she might be using (including collusion or cheating) is correct. That would only work to her advantage. To me that's enough to offset the possible time savings since the bulk of the work for such a test is in the preparation stages. Besides that, I think the general public would be disappointed and frustrated that the full test wasn't given.

The major sticking point is the legal ramifications. If the IIG stopped at the first failed trial and it turned out later that there was a mistake on their part, then we all agree that Anita would have had grounds for a lawsuit. Considering that everyone at the IIG is doing this stuff for the first time in a strange location, you can't discount that mistakes might happen.

I argue that you let it proceed. That way if she fails any of the other trials, the final outcome is unaffected by the the mistake the IIG made in the failed trial. I pointed out that in US law, courts look to restore the person to the same position they would have been in had the breach not occurred. Since redoing that one trial wouldn't make a difference in the final outcome, there's nothing to restore because she's already there. Thus, no lawsuit.

Of course, if she passed the other two trials, then she should be allowed to retake the third trial at the IIG's expense. Then she would be restored to a position where she stood a chance at successfully completing the entire test.

What ticked me off with ynot is his refusal to read any of the links I posted about contract law and his continued insistence based on his personal beliefs rather than his understanding of the law. If *I* am wrong about this, then at least I did my homework.

What's even more frustrating is that ynot cannot see the inconsistency of his position. He argues that if she fails, the IIG has the right cancel the rest of the test. Then he argues that if she fails a legitimate trial, she still has the right to sue to be allowed retake an invalid trial. Well, how come the IIG just can't cancel the whole thing at that point?

I think UncaYimmy needs a drink...
 

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