Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

[tyr_13]

The freedom of speech isn't the only freedom.

Freedom of association also exists.

 

[smartcooky]

I used to be naïve and believed that all viewpoints were valid to express in this country and that free speech was absolute. "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." was my general viewpoint. Surely in the marketplace of ideas, the 'right' ideas will win over the 'wrong' ideas?

Agree. I gave up that kind of naive idealism 30+ years ago, after I read Sydney Schanberg's "The Death and Life of Dith Pran"(the names might be familiar to some)

Real life doesn't work that way, and allowing fascists, Nazis, and white supremacists a public platform to speak and spread their filth only enables them to gain power. And people like you, who seem to see all sides as generally equal, are unwitting accomplices.

100%.

 

[tyr_13]

And people like you, who seem to see all sides as generally equal, are unwitting accomplices.

Appeasers. Often 'centrists' who pick the middle position not because they've come to that position honestly like moderates, but through meta considerations to get them to the 'middle'.

 

[Graham2001]

Censorship by GoogleBot. In this case photographs on a GoogleDrive were designated 'terrorist promotion' resulting in the drive being locked and threatened with deletion.


The first video is one of several 'alerts' posted by members of the YouTube armoured vehicle history community. In the course of this the hypocracy of Google 'fighing discrimination' while flagging pictures of tanks in the middle east as 'terrorist promotion'...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeY_uroI_xI


The second is the 'Thank You' video from the affected person when the situation was resolved in their favour.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLmmNntk94w

 

[Darat]

...snip...

I'm still rather of the opinion that labeling beliefs as inherently evil, and then advocating and applauding the doxxing of those who hold those beliefs so that they can be persecuted is an evil tactic, regardless of how holy you think your cause is.

You contradict yourself.

 

[Darat]

Censorship by GoogleBot. In this case photographs on a GoogleDrive were designated 'terrorist promotion' resulting in the drive being locked and threatened with deletion.


The first video is one of several 'alerts' posted by members of the YouTube armoured vehicle history community. In the course of this the hypocracy of Google 'fighing discrimination' while flagging pictures of tanks in the middle east as 'terrorist promotion'...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeY_uroI_xI


The second is the 'Thank You' video from the affected person when the situation was resolved in their favour.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLmmNntk94w

And what is the point you want to make?

 

[Darat]

Appeasers. Often 'centrists' who pick the middle position not because they've come to that position honestly like moderates, but through meta considerations to get them to the 'middle'.

I have been told that it is only an emotional response that I believe those that want to kill me for no other reason than me being a homosexual i.e. self-identified Nazis are wrong....

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I mean, you can really confidently say she is a racist POS from a 20 second clip and a description from only one side? Seems a lot to infer from a short snapshot of her life. Maybe a bit of an extreme position?

It's the position that her boss took when he fired her. That's kinda my point, someone who has already passed judgement and extracted a punishment is not really in a position to mediate any additional "resolution". I tend to agree with mumblethrax that this boss sees this as an opportunity to insert himself into a situation more so than he really merits.

 

[smartcooky]

I mean, you can really confidently say she is a racist POS from a 20 second clip and a description from only one side? Seems a lot to infer from a short snapshot of her life. Maybe a bit of an extreme position?

What's the alternative? Absolutely not-a-racist person makes a racially charged remark, then tries to deny it, and then gets fired for it? Really? Well, you might buy that pile of dog feces, but I don't - not for a moment.

I do not believe that a person who tells a black man walking his dog to "to stay in your 'hood", is not a racist., and especially when they do so right in front of a third-party witness!

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I used to be naïve and believed that all viewpoints were valid to express in this country and that free speech was absolute. "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." was my general viewpoint. Surely in the marketplace of ideas, the 'right' ideas will win over the 'wrong' ideas?

Real life doesn't work that way, and allowing fascists, Nazis, and white supremacists a public platform to speak and spread their filth only enables them to gain power. And people like you, who seem to see all sides as generally equal, are unwitting accomplices.

I think we are well passed the time where such stances could be attributed to naivety. American fascists have repeatedly showed the public who they are and what they hope to achieve, those that are still carrying water for their movement through pretextual mewling about "free speech" or the "marketplace of ideas" are just cowards, enablers, or collaborators.

 

[d4m10n]

I do not believe that a person who tells a black man walking his dog to "to stay in your 'hood", is not a racist., and especially when they do so right in front of a third-party witness!

You're taking someone's word for it on this part, since she doesn't say it on video.

 

[Elaedith]

You're taking someone's word for it on this part, since she doesn't say it on video.

I believe she probably said it, although I certainly wouldn't take Joseph's word for it given his history.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Sometimes cancel culture is insufficiently aggressive so you have to cancel yourself.

A former FedEx driver who vowed in a profanity-laced video to never deliver packages to houses championing the Black Lives Matter movement, Joe Biden, or Kamala Harris has since been fired — and now won’t be delivering packages to any houses at all.

First reported by TooFab on Friday, the delivery company terminated employee Vincent Paterno, 39, after catching wind of a TikTok video in which Paterno smugly states he will not extend services to any house with a flag representing BLM, the President or VP, using a vulgar term to mock Harris’ first name.

https://news.yahoo.com/fedex-fires-driver-refused-deliver-205944592.html

 

[d4m10n]

I believe she probably said it, although I certainly wouldn't take Joseph's word for it given his history.

I've seen social justice advocates make up fake quotes often enough that I don't have much credulity left when there isn't decent corroboration.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I just wanted to say that trying to shame people for treating actual nazis like “nazis” actually treat everyone else is a pretty hot take.

Well I totally understand why of all people on the internet Nazis would want to remain anonymous. I don’t necessarily condone hacking people in principle and have mixed feelings on doxing. That said, it happened. I don’t think you can really expect everyone else not to react to finding out someone is a real life nazi. Whether Joan found out on her own or someone else told her it’s what happened. It’s a weird principal stance to expect people to carry on their personal relationships because they found out in an “unfair” way, and doubly so to expect that to be the default stance in my opinion.

But by all means, if you want to be that forgiving that you’d willingly associate with Nazis because they wanted to do it secretly I think that’s your choice to make. I think most people, rightfully, would not.

I don't expect people to carry on their personal relationships.

I do expect that nefarious and intentionally harmful actions don't get multiplied by people who do NOT have a personal relationship with their target. I also expect that people who are uninvolved don't laud and support the nefarious actions in the first place.

There's a clear downside to this behavior. Honestly, I'm baffled that it's not obvious to all of you. Or perhaps you just choose to ignore it when it suits your needs.

First off, the definition of what I'll loosely call "heresy" is fluid and highly subjective. Today it's "nazi" and that all seems well and good. But "actual nazis" these aren't. Already, they're not members of the actual nazi party, so there's an immediate fail. So we have to redefine that to "nazi-like" and rely on their beliefs - or at least what we infer their beliefs to be. So far, I can get behind that based on the names of the domains. We infer that this person holds antisemitic beliefs. And perhaps enough of us today view that to be socially unacceptable. But you should know from observation that many, many people aren't so narrow in their definition. Many, many people have expanded their applied definition of nazi to mean nothing more than right-wing, or even simply conservative.

So now, you're giving license to see anyone who is labeled as "right wing" or "conservative" to be doxed, harassed, and fired because of their beliefs. And THAT is not reasonable or appropriate behavior - that is exactly the behavior of fascist authoritarians and religious zealots.

Second, you're relying on a naïve assumptions that the only targets of such action would be what I'll loosely call "enemies". People who are in opposition to your own social values and objectives. You assume that the actors behind such nefarious actions will always hold the same view as you. But that's a sophomoric assumptions, as should be clearly obvious by even a brief skimming of history. There's no reason to think that in another few years, in a decade, in some relatively short period of time, the "orthodox" view will shift, and you'll find yourself the one labeled as the heretical "enemy" subject to doxxing, harassing, and firing on the basis of your beliefs.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I think we are well passed the time where such stances could be attributed to naivety. American fascists have repeatedly showed the public who they are and what they hope to achieve, those that are still carrying water for their movement through pretextual mewling about "free speech" or the "marketplace of ideas" are just cowards, enablers, or collaborators.

Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists.

It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you.

This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Notorious right wing troll and serial stalker is floundering after Epik hack, lashing out at mainstream and independent journalists.

Melissa Lewis, a self-described anti-fascist activist and writer in Portland, Ore., said her family spent months feeling “hunted” by far-right troll and convicted hacker Joseph “Joey” Camp, whose name was listed on domain registrations with Epik and who has claimed publicly to have done freelance work for Monster.

Lewis said Camp — whose targets have included not just far-left activists but also conservative favorite Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.) — sent her harassing emails, posted her home address and disseminated photos of her online, resulting in Lewis being added to extremist hit lists. She said Camp also went after her father, an emergency room doctor, by posting the human resources number to his hospital and spinning tales about her dad “letting cops and patriots die” in the ER. Lewis said her father, too, began receiving death threats, prompting the hospital to take security precautions.


...

After the call, which Camp recorded and posted online, he boasted of “lying to the Washington Post” and began harassing a Post reporter via text and social media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/25/epik-hack-fallout/

Some of the worst cockroaches on the planet are scrambling after the lights were suddenly thrown on. Sucks to suck.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists.

It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you.

This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud.

Ah yes, the fierce persecution of being criticized.

 

[dirtywick]

I don't expect people to carry on their personal relationships.

I do expect that nefarious and intentionally harmful actions don't get multiplied by people who do NOT have a personal relationship with their target. I also expect that people who are uninvolved don't laud and support the nefarious actions in the first place.

There's a clear downside to this behavior. Honestly, I'm baffled that it's not obvious to all of you. Or perhaps you just choose to ignore it when it suits your needs.

First off, the definition of what I'll loosely call "heresy" is fluid and highly subjective. Today it's "nazi" and that all seems well and good. But "actual nazis" these aren't. Already, they're not members of the actual nazi party, so there's an immediate fail. So we have to redefine that to "nazi-like" and rely on their beliefs - or at least what we infer their beliefs to be. So far, I can get behind that based on the names of the domains. We infer that this person holds antisemitic beliefs. And perhaps enough of us today view that to be socially unacceptable. But you should know from observation that many, many people aren't so narrow in their definition. Many, many people have expanded their applied definition of nazi to mean nothing more than right-wing, or even simply conservative.

So now, you're giving license to see anyone who is labeled as "right wing" or "conservative" to be doxed, harassed, and fired because of their beliefs. And THAT is not reasonable or appropriate behavior - that is exactly the behavior of fascist authoritarians and religious zealots.

Second, you're relying on a naïve assumptions that the only targets of such action would be what I'll loosely call "enemies". People who are in opposition to your own social values and objectives. You assume that the actors behind such nefarious actions will always hold the same view as you. But that's a sophomoric assumptions, as should be clearly obvious by even a brief skimming of history. There's no reason to think that in another few years, in a decade, in some relatively short period of time, the "orthodox" view will shift, and you'll find yourself the one labeled as the heretical "enemy" subject to doxxing, harassing, and firing on the basis of your beliefs.

But really how can you write a whole paragraph about how unfair I’m using nazi after you wrote this:

How on earth do you not understand that these are the tactics of the inquisition and the nazi part?

OK, so tell me more about how people wanting a realtor that doesn’t run Holocaust denial sites are the real fascists and going on Twitter to tell ****** people they are ****** is basically the inquisition.

 

[smartcooky]

You're taking someone's word for it on this part, since she doesn't say it on video.

Did you forget there was a witness?