Can YOU Debunk This?

TheLoneBedouin said:
What latitude and longitude are you using for the security cameras?
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38°52'21.52"N
77° 3'29.82"W (camera A)

38°52'21.73"N
77° 3'29.70"W (camera B)

lee5 said:
using my best guess as to where the cameras are I got this....

38.872694, -77.058273 for the camera furthest away and 38.872654,-77.05827 for the closer camera.
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That's close to what I got. The main difference is that you place camera B at the southwest corner of the shack at the entrance to the Pentagon Mall Terrace Parking Lot, whereas I have it halfway across the south face of the shack. The problem is that there aren't any great closeup photos of the shack. This 9/11 image by Mike Garcia is the best I've got (although I didn't check my files completely):

623me9.jpg


There is a feature halfway across the top of the south face that might be the location of the camera. The 9/14 image by Cedric Rudisill is the next best image and shows two objects that look like they might be cameras on the roof at the northwest and southeast corners (in addition to the feature mentioned above) but these are absent in the photo given here. Because the Rudisill photo was taken from a helicopter looking across a large distance, I think it is more likely that these two objects are litter on the ground. But it is possible that the camera might be at the southeast corner.

In either case, I fail to see the problem that "greatbenwa" imagines.
 
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This MUST be photo fakery!!! We ALL know an airplane can't be this big!!! And the moon isnt this small!!.....Um....is it??? Oh my golly!!

128299534_3f45b7015c.jpg
 
Calculations Re: 9/11 Video

Coordinates (Decimal Degrees)

Camera 1 (Far):
38.872694, -77.058273

Camera 2 (near):
38.872639, -77.058281

Corner of Pentagon Ridge (near):
38.871940, -77.058106

Corner of Pentagon Ridge (far):
38.870713, -77.058385

Distances (Approximate)

Camera 1 - Camera 2:
19.85'

Cam1 - Impact:
627.85'

Cam2 - Impact:
603.08'

Cam1 - Near Ridge:
273.45'

Cam2 - Near Ridge:
254.12'

Cam1 - Far Ridge:
720'

Cam2 - Far Ridge:
700'

Summary of Calculations

Code: 
Object           D1               D2           Diff.         Displacement (Degrees)
Car              25'               5'            80%         Not Measured

NRidge          270'             255'             7%         15 (105)

FRidge          720'             700'             3%          3 (93)

House         4,390'           4,310'          0.05%          0 (90)

Explosion       630'             600'             4%         [B] 0 (90)[/B]

Distances in the above table are approximations- the exact figures previously listed were used for calculations.

D1 = Distance From Cam 1
D2 = Distance From Cam 2
NRidge = Corner of Ridge Nearest Camera
FRidge = Corner of Ridge farthest from Camera
House = Background Marker/ Penthouse

Degree of displacement measures the disimilarity in position when the camera images are superimposed. The two images are alligned and a point locating a specific object is placed in each image (The point was assigned to recognizable figures. The image was magnified until a pixel signifying a corner or line signifying an edge could be determined.). The angle of the resultant line is measured (measurements are in parentheses in table) and the degree to which the angle differs from 90 is the angle of displacement.

Greater differences between D1 and D2 correlate with greater displacements.

The explosion should have had a displacement between 3 and 15 degrees, but miraculously has a displacement of 0. Also note that the only displacemnent of 0 is for an object 7 times farther away from the camera than the explosion!* Therefore we can conclude that the tape was manipulated.

*I used the point of impact in these calculations, but had I used the explosion front, the difference between distances and subsequent displacement should have been even higher!

Images

Example of a "Ridge"- the structures which protrude from all sides of the Pentagon

Ridge Front

Ridge End

Explosion
 
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TheLoneBedouin said:
Degree of displacement measures the disimilarity in position when the camera images are superimposed. The two images are alligned and a point locating a specific object is placed in each image....The explosion should have had a displacement between 3 and 15 degrees, but miraculously has a displacement of 0. Also note that the only displacemnent of 0 is for an object 7 times farther away from the camera than the explosion!* Therefore we can conclude that the tape was manipulated.
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FAIL!

Zero displacement, huh?

regpent4aob6.jpg
 
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Mangoose said:
FAIL!

Zero displacement, huh?

[qimg]http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6782/regpent4aob6.jpg[/qimg]
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Uh, that's neither the picture nor the object in question.



You don't even have to superimpose the images- Just align them properly. As you can see, the ends of the explosion form a perfect 90 degree angle. Download the image and draw a line connecting the edges of the background images from the two videos- it forms a 90 angle too but is over 7 times the distance from the camera!

Errata: House diff. should equal approx. 0.5%. House D1 = 4310, D2 = 4290.
 
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TheLoneBedouin said:
Uh, that's neither the picture nor the object in question.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_26184491a4e063c992.jpg[/qimg]

You don't even have to superimpose the images- Just align them properly. As you can see, the ends of the explosion form a perfect 90 degree angle. Download the image and draw a line connecting the edges of the background images from the two videos- it forms a 90 angle too but is over 7 times the distance from the camera!
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I have no idea what you are talking about. Taking into account the minimal difference you are talking about, they are different. Look at that "H" shape right above the ridge. Just eyeballing it you can tell it is elongated to the left of the photograph, hell, the whole thing is elongated to the left.
 
TheLoneBedouin said:
Degree of displacement measures the disimilarity in position when the camera images are superimposed. The two images are alligned and a point locating a specific object is placed in each image (The point was assigned to recognizable figures. The image was magnified until a pixel signifying a corner or line signifying an edge could be determined.). The angle of the resultant line is measured (measurements are in parentheses in table) and the degree to which the angle differs from 90 is the angle of displacement.
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Um... I hate to pee in your teapot, but you don't know the focal length of either camera so this entire step is meaningless. In fact, your entire process is meaningless. You clearly don't understand anything about cameras.
 
Of course you think the two images create "a perfect 90 degree angle" -- you're working off a crappy quality Youtube video!

But if you register the two videos (such that there is no parallax with the background objects), and then duplicate the image directly below (thereby avoiding alignment errors between the two images), you can easily see that the angle formed is not perfectly 90 degrees:

pentregcompkh8.jpg
 
TheLoneBedouin said:
Maybe video expert Mangoose can?
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7 years, the dolt who did the video failed to learn about lousy parking lot camera lenses. Why do idiots post crap about stuff they have zero education, experience and abilities in. Why did you post a dumbed-down video showing the 9/11 truth movement is pure anti-intellectual claptrap?

Ignorance on lousy parking lot camera lens is not a crime, and making yourself look stupid is not either. His complete ignorance is protected by the constitution or something.

At least SPreston rubber stamped his work.

Dirt dumb video and support to match.
Next time bring out the optics theory and use some math instead of messing up math, and displaying a disrespect for science.
 
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parky76 said:
This MUST be photo fakery!!! We ALL know an airplane can't be this big!!! And the moon isnt this small!!.....Um....is it??? Oh my golly!!

[qimg]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/1/128299534_3f45b7015c.jpg?v=1155273592[/qimg]
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Here's an even better photo fakery...and it's really faked! Truthers would argue the moon doesn't look like that. :p

et5.jpg
 
bje said:
What moon?
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The stupid of that site really burns...Wow!

Someone's been putting up fake imagery and called it the moon all these years?
Imagine that! A hoax since...hmmm..well since someone looked up to the sky and decided there had to be a thing called a moon and decided what it should look like. How did they do that?

Or, most likely, it could have been different things at different times and different places, depending on the technology available to the conspirators and the culture and beliefs of the population being deceived.
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That explains it; truther logic.
 
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