Can this qualify as a challenge?

[Humphreys]

In my experience, exposing people to scorn when their only mistake is that they do not understand critical thinking, does not help them to grasp what is being said. On the contrary, it can contribute to reinforcing fallacious stereotypes such as "Science thinks it knows everything" and "Science is just another religion".

It seems quite evident to me that PeaceCrusader is not in this category. He can expect to have his ideas minutely examined and robustly criticised here of course, but he does not deserve to be personally mocked.

I wasn't defending the mocking, just the cynicism.

Don't you ever come across someone and just know, right away, that this person is completely immune to rational argument, and is never, ever going to change his/her mind?

PC may be a nice guy, but change his mind he ain't gonna, and I'm perfectly willing to say, pass the challenge he ain't gonna either. However, I'm perfectly happy for him to give it a go, and I believe, if he is really serious, no amount of mocking, ridicule or cynicism is going to change that.

 

[Moochie]

I wasn't defending the mocking, just the cynicism.

Don't you ever come across someone and just know, right away, that this person is completely immune to rational argument, and is never, ever going to change his/her mind?

PC may be a nice guy, but change his mind he ain't gonna, and I'm perfectly willing to say, pass the challenge he ain't gonna either. However, I'm perfectly happy for him to give it a go, and I believe, if he is really serious, no amount of mocking, ridicule or cynicism is going to change that.

Don't waste your energy. More than a few "Francis Collinses" around these traps.

M.

 

[Psiload]

Dear Burner and Fellow Forumers,





Thank you, Burner, for your reply. You have selected one of the 19 prophecies that we can test because it happened a few months after the prophecies were revealed on October 19, 1979.

The prophecy states: "Unprecedented sorrow will rock the whole world in the second or third month of 1980."

I am looking for my clippings from newspapers and magazines and the Internet which I believe is the fulfillment of this prophecy but I have not found it. So I will try to recall the information about the event. Please correct the info or put in the correct dates.

The prophecy was fulfilled with the eruption of Mount St Helens in the state of Washington in USA in May 1980. However, two months prior to this eruption, about the last week of March 1980, the volcano issued plume of smoke from its top after 123 years of inactivity. The volcano came back to life. It was a signal of something that was to happen. So for the next two months, volcanologists monitored the activity of the volcano; tourists visited the site.

Then in May 1980, the volcano erupted. Instead of blasting upward, it blasted laterally. The force of this blast was equal to so many times the bombs dropped at Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Because the blast was lateral, it changed the direction of the jet stream, and so is the weather pattern. The jet stream used to be flowing from northwest to southeast across Mainland USA but was changed from west to east. This caused the coldness of the north to be trapped so that year, it suffered a severe winter whereas the south, since no cold air came from the north, suffered severe heatwave. In Europe, it became rainy. They say that they did not experience summer that year.

Until now, we are still experiencing this change in weather pattern, which people attribute to global warming, pollution, etc. but never to God. And this change was due to the eruption of Mount St Helens in May 1980, but the signal was issued two months earlier in March 1980.

Would you agree to this explanation or you have any other event in February or March 1980 that "rocked the whole world" with "unprecedented sorrow"? Or none at all?

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

As a result of the eruption of Mt St. Helens in 1980, 56 people were killed.

Four years prior to this disaster (July 26, 1976), an earthquake in Tangshan, China claimed the lives of 242,419 people.

Ten years prior to the eruption of Mt. St. Helens on November 13, 1970, the Bhola cyclone in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), killed over 500,000 people.

Question... Why wouldn't you consider these two tragic events to be sorrowful precedents greater than, or at least equal to, the eruption of Mt. St. Helens in 1980?

 

[Jocky]

Don't you ever come across someone and just know, right away, that this person is completely immune to rational argument, and is never, ever going to change his/her mind?

Frequently

PC may be a nice guy, but change his mind he ain't gonna

He ain't gonna change his mind about his religious beliefs in a hurry, I grant you - but maybe he might learn something about how to tell whether or not mediums can truly speak with the voice of divine spirits.

pass the challenge he ain't gonna either. However, I'm perfectly happy for him to give it a go, and I believe, if he is really serious, no amount of mocking, ridicule or cynicism is going to change that.

My point was that PC has shown himself able to listen to advice and take things on board. In particular, he has proved willing to change the nature of his original claim in order to make it falsifiable, and that seems to me to be a significant step forward - thanks to the constructive comments he got frrom contributors to this thread.

Someone who has come this far could go further, methinks ...

 

[Jocky]

More than a few "Francis Collinses" around these traps

What has Francis Collins got to do with it?

 

[Burner]

.

The prophecy was fulfilled with the eruption of Mount St Helens in the state of Washington in USA in May 1980..
...And this change was due to the eruption of Mount St Helens in May 1980, but the signal was issued two months earlier in March 1980.

So the event didn't actually happen at the time it was supposed to, but the warning of the event did? I'm sorry PC but this simply has no meaning whatsoever. Reference to the event and the event itself are two different things. Even if Mt. St. Helens did happen in the correct timeframe that spirit fortold, how could this cause an unprecedented sorrow?

Would you agree to this explanation or you have any other event in February or March 1980 that "rocked the whole world" with "unprecedented sorrow"?

Sure.
"May 4 - Yugoslav President Tito dies. The funeral ceremony later becomes the world's biggest diplomatic meeting and media event ever, with more than 140 state delegations in Belgrade from all over the world (only the funeral of Pope John Paul II in April 2005 will have more news coverage and a higher number of delegations). "

 

[Moochie]

What has Francis Collins got to do with it?

My term for believers in skeptics' clothing.

M.

 

[Jocky]

My term for believers in skeptics' clothing

Ah, right - Gotcha.

 

[Cuddles]

The prophecy states: "Unprecedented sorrow will rock the whole world"

I am looking for my clippings from newspapers and magazines and the Internet which I believe is the fulfillment of this prophecy but I have not found it.

Gosh, a whole world rocking event that no-one remembers and doesn't appear in the news. Now that is paranormal.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Psiload and Fellow Forumers,

As a result of the eruption of Mt St. Helens in 1980, 56 people were killed.

Four years prior to this disaster (July 26, 1976), an earthquake in Tangshan, China claimed the lives of 242,419 people.

Ten years prior to the eruption of Mt. St. Helens on November 13, 1970, the Bhola cyclone in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), killed over 500,000 people.

Question... Why wouldn't you consider these two tragic events to be sorrowful precedents greater than, or at least equal to, the eruption of Mt. St. Helens in 1980?

True that there may only be 56 people killed by the eruption of Mount St Helens compared to two disasters that you mentioned which happened before 1979. The prophecy states "unprecedented sorrow". What has been happening as a result of the more violent weather that we are experiencing now? Did Hurricane Katrina cause unprecedented sorrow? How about the blizzards and ice storms and heat waves and tornadoes and mudslides, etc. that have happened after 1979? Has the weather gone berserk?

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Burner and Fellow Forumers,

The prophecy was fulfilled with the eruption of Mount St Helens in the state of Washington in USA in May 1980.

...And this change was due to the eruption of Mount St Helens in May 1980, but the signal was issued two months earlier in March 1980. So the event didn't actually happen at the time it was supposed to, but the warning of the event did? I'm sorry PC but this simply has no meaning whatsoever. Reference to the event and the event itself are two different things. Even if Mt. St. Helens did happen in the correct timeframe that spirit fortold, how could this cause an unprecedented sorrow?

That is what God does. He gives warnings. For example, God told Noah to build an ark for He was going to flood the earth and kill its inhabitants. That took one hundred years before the prophecy was fulfilled. And while Noah was building the ark, he received ridicule, mocking, for the people did not heed the warning. When the rain came, those people outside the ark knocked on the ark for Noah to let them in but Noah could not open the door of the ark anymore. God shut the door. So those outside were all drowned.

That was the vessel used before--an ark. This time, it will be repeated, but not through flooding but in another way. And the vessel to be used will not be an ark to float on water, but another kind. Would you like to know what it is? These vessels will be used to save the chosen 144,000 people who will restart, repopulate the world in the year 2200.

Would you agree to this explanation or you have any other event in February or March 1980 that "rocked the whole world" with "unprecedented sorrow"?

Sure.
"May 4 - Yugoslav President Tito dies. The funeral ceremony later becomes the world's biggest diplomatic meeting and media event ever, with more than 140 state delegations in Belgrade from all over the world (only the funeral of Pope John Paul II in April 2005 will have more news coverage and a higher number of delegations). "

Thank you, Burner, for presenting the significant event for May 1980. Do you think that that event is what the prophecy was referring to? IMHO, I don't think so.

Best regards,
Ariste Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Burner and Fellow Forumers,

The prophecy was fulfilled with the eruption of Mount St Helens in the state of Washington in USA in May 1980.

...And this change was due to the eruption of Mount St Helens in May 1980, but the signal was issued two months earlier in March 1980. So the event didn't actually happen at the time it was supposed to, but the warning of the event did? I'm sorry PC but this simply has no meaning whatsoever. Reference to the event and the event itself are two different things. Even if Mt. St. Helens did happen in the correct timeframe that spirit fortold, how could this cause an unprecedented sorrow?

That is what God does. He gives warnings. For example, God told Noah to build an ark for He was going to flood the earth and kill its inhabitants. That took one hundred years before the prophecy was fulfilled. And while Noah was building the ark, he received ridicule, mocking, for the people did not heed the warning. When the rain came, those people outside the ark knocked on the ark for Noah to let them in but Noah could not open the door of the ark anymore. God shut the door. So those outside were all drowned.

That was the vessel used before--an ark. This time, it will be repeated, but not through flooding but in another way. And the vessel to be used will not be an ark to float on water, but another kind. Would you like to know what it is? These vessels will be used to save the chosen 144,000 people who will restart, repopulate the world in the year 2200.

Would you agree to this explanation or you have any other event in February or March 1980 that "rocked the whole world" with "unprecedented sorrow"?

Sure.
"May 4 - Yugoslav President Tito dies. The funeral ceremony later becomes the world's biggest diplomatic meeting and media event ever, with more than 140 state delegations in Belgrade from all over the world (only the funeral of Pope John Paul II in April 2005 will have more news coverage and a higher number of delegations). "

Thank you, Burner, for presenting the significant event for May 1980. Do you think that that event is what the prophecy was referring to? IMHO, I don't think so.

Best regards,
Ariste Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Fellow Forumers,

It is now 10:30 PM, Friday, March 2, 2007, in Australia. Within 48 hours, I would have talked to the woman-medium in the Philippines by phone to know the response of the spirit if He would like to undergo the test of JREF or not. I will try my best to have the conversation recorded so that I can convey to you her exact words. I wish it would be an affirmative answer.

Thank you for your patience in waiting for the response. Our wait won't be long anymore.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Fellow Forumers,

There are two other prophecies with years which have gone by. Would you like that we test them?

The prophecies are:
1. INSANITY - "Disease of the brain, or insanity, will prevail in 1980, 1981 until 1988, especially in the three superpower countries."
2. WAR - "The ambition and motivation for war will be perennial inducements among all races until such inducements are made manifest three years after 1979." (What were these manifestations in 1982?)

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Burner]

Thank you, Burner, for presenting the significant event for May 1980. Do you think that that event is what the prophecy was referring to?

Oh definitely. Since date and time of the prophecy play no significant role and events two months or more off the predicted mark are taken into account(or any future events for that matter), I am now convinced that the death of Tito was exactly the earth-shattering sorrow event that the good spirit fortold in his prophecy. Altho Tito was a sworn communist, he really was a God obiding man who was loved by many around the globe. More so than those 56 who died at Mt. St. Helens anyway. What's more, I firmly believe that Tito didn't actually die, but he went back to his realm as a recon, with a mission to send back the earth-saving ships (or vessels as you call them) which are due to arrive in year 2200. He was not the only one on this mission mind you, but I won't get into that right now.

 

[Psiload]

Dear Psiload and Fellow Forumers,



True that there may only be 56 people killed by the eruption of Mount St Helens compared to two disasters that you mentioned which happened before 1979. The prophecy states "unprecedented sorrow". What has been happening as a result of the more violent weather that we are experiencing now? Did Hurricane Katrina cause unprecedented sorrow? How about the blizzards and ice storms and heat waves and tornadoes and mudslides, etc. that have happened after 1979? Has the weather gone berserk?

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

The original prophecy stated...

Unprecedented sorrow will rock the whole world in the second or third month of 1980;

And now you're going to somehow stretch a 2 month period to include the cumulative effect of every severe weather event that has taken place over the last three decades?

Please, Aristeo. Think about what you're saying. You're being foolish.

 

[Loss Leader]

Would you like that we test them?

The prophecies are:
1. INSANITY - "Disease of the brain, or insanity, will prevail in 1980, 1981 until 1988, especially in the three superpower countries."

PC - Please provide whatever statistics you would like to support the contention that insanity prevalied in 1980 and 1981 and then dropped in 1988. All you have to do is show evidence that this happened. It is entirely up to you to show that this prophesy came true.

Now, I believe the statistics show no such thing but I will be glad to look at any evidence you present. You have to show that this came true.

- "The ambition and motivation for war will be perennial inducements among all races until such inducements are made manifest three years after 1979." (What were these manifestations in 1982?)

I have no idea what this prophesy is upposed to mean. Ambition and motivation will be perennial inducements? What does that mean? And then what does it mean to make the inducements manifest? What was supposed to happen before 1982 and what was supposed to happen afterwards?

I cannot even understand the prophesy let alone test it. Please explain it and then show proof that it came true.

In any case, 1982 was a pretty quiet year for war. Vietnam had ended in 1975. Afghanstan wrapped up for the Russians. Iran had released the hostages in early 1981. There was some nonsense down in Central America but, then again, there is ALWAYS WAR SOMEWHERE.

Please don't just write back about some conflict that Wikipedia says happened in 1982. There is always conflict. War is ever-present somewhere on the globe. How was 1982 different?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Loss Leader and Fellow Forumers,

Would you like that we test them?

The prophecies are:
1. INSANITY - "Disease of the brain, or insanity, will prevail in 1980, 1981 until 1988, especially in the three superpower countries."

PC - Please provide whatever statistics you would like to support the contention that insanity prevalied in 1980 and 1981 and then dropped in 1988. All you have to do is show evidence that this happened. It is entirely up to you to show that this prophesy came true.

Now, I believe the statistics show no such thing but I will be glad to look at any evidence you present. You have to show that this came true.

I will present the fulfillment of this prophecy (insanity) in this post and the fulfillment of the other prophecy (1982 - inducement for war) in another.

Firstly, I would like to clarify that the prophecy refers to insanity or mental disorder and not disease of the brain, e.g. encephalitis, that is caused by infective organisms, such as bacteria, protozoa, helminths or worms, and viruses.

The prophecy states “especially in the three superpower countries”. Which are these countries? The US and the former USSR are two of them. The third country is most likely Great Britain. It says “especially”. Therefore, insanity is also common in other countries aside from these three.

What happened in 1980? John Lennon of the Beatles was assassinated by a confused, suicidal young madman named Mark David Chapman in New York City on December 8, 1980.

What happened in 1981? US President Ronald Reagan and three other men were shot and seriously wounded by John Warnock Hinckley, Jr. on March 30, 1981. Hinckley said he wanted to impress and attract the attention of the young actress Jodie Forster, 18 years old then, whose love he tried to win by shooting the President. Time Magazine wrote, “By any standard of common sense, it was an insane act: shooting a President to win the affections of a movie star.”

Hinckley was acquitted in the assassination attempt by reason on insanity on June 21, 1982, and was held in a mental institution.

What happened in 1982? Queen Elizabeth of Great Britain was intruded into her bedroom at Buckingham Palace by Michael Fagan. The family of Fagan said he claimed he was in love with the then 56-year-old monarch.

On October 12, 1982, he began an indefinite stay at a top security mental hospital after psychiatrist told the Criminal Court that Fagan was mentally ill and a danger to the Queen.

On July 18, 1984 in San Ysidro, California, USA, James Oliver Huberty, 41 years old, walked into a McDonald’s restaurant with three loaded weapons and slaughtered and killed 21 people and wounded 19. This became known as the “Hamburger Massacre”. Huberty lost his job as a security guard a week earlier. His neighbors described him as an unfriendly man who liked guns.

When Huberty started to leave the apartment, his wife asked, “Where are you going, Honey?” “I’m going to hunt humans,” he replied. Mrs Huberty said she didn’t know what he meant.

Those above events in 1980 to 1982 happened to prominent personalities, as if to underline that the problem of insanity was real and prevalent. If the attacks by madmen happened to an ordinary person, will they make into the international headlines? Most likely not. They would have been ignored. But if it involves mass and indiscriminate killings which is extraordinary, then it could, like the “Hamburger Massacre”, and later the “Dunblane Massacre” (1996) and “Port Arthur Massacre” (1996).

In about 1986, I asked the spirit if 1988 would be the ultimate, the final act of madness or insanity of man since the prophecy states “until 1988”. He replied in the negative. That is why even after 1988, we had cases of insanity committed by madmen. And we will continue to witness these.

Could you please add some more acts of insanity that indiscriminately killed many innocent people?

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Pro7]

---snip----

Could you please add some more acts of insanity that indiscriminately killed many innocent people?

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

Yes I can add another... The World Trade Center bombing by Airlines is also another insanity perpertrated by its own government. More to come.. American citizens just let these things go..and america will fall because of that.

Another.. Iraq--Iran war. They are already fighting in Iran as it is just not officially 'declared'...

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Loss Leader and Fellow Forumers,

"The ambition and motivation for war will be perennial inducements among all races until such inducements are made manifest three years after 1979." (What were these manifestations in 1982?)

I have no idea what this prophesy is supposed to mean. Ambition and motivation will be perennial inducements? What does that mean? And then what does it mean to make the inducements manifest? What was supposed to happen before 1982 and what was supposed to happen afterwards?

I cannot even understand the prophesy let alone test it. Please explain it and then show proof that it came true.

Three years after 1979 is 1982. What were the manifestations in 1982 for mankind to be induced and have the ambition and motivation to wage war?

I would like to state that in 1982, we had two wars.

1. Falkland Islands or Islas Malvinas – A resolution by the UN General Assembly in 1965 called for Argentina and Great Britain to find a peaceful solution regarding the Falkland Islands, which Argentina calls Islas Malvinas.

On April 2, 1982, Argentina used force of arms to invade and occupy the Falkland Islands. After six weeks, Britain defeated Argentina. The latter’s garrison was surrendered and British forces re-occupied the Islands.

2. Lebanon – Israeli troops invaded Lebanon on June 6, 1982 with the stated intent of driving the Palestinian forces out of southern Lebanon. Their invasion drove them all the way into West Beirut. Under a ceasefire, the Palestinians were dispersed throughout the Arab world.

3. In the later part of 1982, a conference was held in Fez, Morocco. This conference is significant because we may see the agreement made in it being invoked later on. I think Nostradamus has a quatrain about this place also. Could someone elucidate more about this conference or place?

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo