cameras and ghosts

[Nyarlathotep]

As far as I know, they didn't have that much time to be messing around. They ended up using the extension cord instead of the batteries.

And did that seem to cause the problem to stop?

 

[sweetkb713]

Re: Re: cameras and ghosts

I think this is your answer!

When I wsas little I'd play tricks on my sister like that, I'd have a second remote and change her channel on her. It took her quite a while to figure it out, she was going nuts thinking the TV was broke.

Even if the teacher didn't give out the remotes, someone could have had their own remote (often the same remote works for different models by the same company, or it could be a universal remote). Make that DID have their own remote, lots of fun to do that in a "haunted" house.

I'll bet if you cover up the remote sensor on the camera w/ black tape the "ghosts" will go away.

Again, camera was off.

Also, a remote can STOP a camera when it is recording, but when you turn it back on it's not still recording. A remote cannot turn a camera off and on, either. That has to be done manually.

Otherwise, I'd say a remote was a good possibility. I also wouldn't believe them if they hadn't filmed the whole thing in one shot.

The people in attendance were: the two group members (his camera was the one really being weird, she was filming constantly with the other one) the guy's wife (who was also constantly filming with a camera) the psychic (who was on screen almost the whole time) and the two owners. I didn't see much of them, I don't think they walked around with everyone. They could have done something, but where would they have gotten a remote?

When this all started happening the guy was downstairs in the basement by himself. We saw the footage of both the wife and the other partner where he starts yelling and they all run downstairs, and the whole thing is taped on two tapes (where we see the camera turning on and off and being in the off position and then turning on.)

Like I said before, could something with electricity cause this? I'm not asking about ghosts, so please everyone stop assuming that I'm trying to make an argument that it was ghosts.

 

[sweetkb713]

I was thinking of the "universal" remote control units you can buy in Tandy for $10 to $15. There are IR ones and radio ones, all fully programmable for whatever unit you want...

Btw, were the batteries actually checked as fully charged BEFORE you went in the "haunted house"? Did you sit them still and switched on for a while to see if the charge held? Oh, and did you remove the tin-foil stuck across the removeable battery terminals inside the camera..???

I wasn't there. I'm just going on what the entire class saw on film and what these students (who I know) told us.

The batteries were charged completely. The teacher herself charges them overnight, and as far as I know, the "ghost hunt" was the only stuff they shot that night.

This guy has worked on actual film sets. I think I forgot to mention that. He worked various positions in film and was also the second camera unit for some small film. I think he knows how to check his equipment before going out into the field.

 

[sweetkb713]

On my parent's HP digital camera, the batteries get consumed pretty darn quick. Twice that if the backlit LCD is left on. Twice that if used to record a short movie.

For what it's worth...

Well, I guess then that we're all just stupid graduate students who have no idea how a digital camera is supposed to work because we haven't been using them since they came out or anything.

 

[sweetkb713]

Start with a discharged battery. Now plug it into a charger for a short while, say, five to ten minutes (instead of the several hours it should really be on charge). Operate the device. You will now see exactly the event that sweetkb describes: Initially, the battery seems well charged, but it rapidly discarges, running out as you watch.

I've done the same exact thing myself. Again, though, this guy knows how to check his stuff. And for the life of me I can't think of any reason why he would want to fool everyone. That's why I don't really that happened. Human error, though, is a possibility.

It still doesn't explain how the camera turns on while in the off position.

 

[sweetkb713]

Keep in mind also that rechargeable batteries degrade with use. Eventually they lose the ability to hold a charge well.

They are brand new. No one else had problems before or since.

These are "school" batteries, and as such are probably used and abused far more often than batteries that sit in the closet at home.[/B]

This is the only class that uses the cameras, and the class is held once a semester. We just purchased the batteries last semester. Again, no one else has had problems. There are 6 cameras and 12 batteries that cycle amongst 7 groups. They're not overused.

One lightweight charge to a well used battery, and you can see some very fast drain

Is that what happened? I don't know. However it's much more likely than a supernatural energy draining attack. [/B]

Again, I'm not saying that this is something supernatural. I'm not even suggesting it.

 

[sweetkb713]

So, it would seem that all observations have mundane, probable explanations. If anybody is still in doubt, directions for an affirmative test is also here:

Use fully charged batteries, confirmed to be in good shape.
Cover remote receiver apertures (be sure t otest that this really puts the rmore out of operation). Redo the session.

Obsessing about one specific thing is a general "debunker" tactic.

I think we can all assume that the batteries were not fully charged due to human error.

Why is no one even thinking about how the camera turned ON when it was manually set to OFF?

Oh, you asked about radio waves; yes, a powerful radio field might do something like that. Is there a large radio/radar installation nearby? Or a cellphone repeater on the roof? If yes, bring a field-strenght meter, as RF esposure on the site might be at a hazardous level.[/B]

Finally, someone answers the question that I actually asked!

I don't know if there was anything like that around. That could interfere with the way the camera works? I don't know anything about this sort of thing.

I do know that the camera that started turning on and off was in the basement, which was below ground. (The building was previously a bank and had an underground vault.) I don't think the camera was IN the vault, though. But that could be an explanation if a radio field can manipulate equipment like that.

THANK YOU.

 

[sweetkb713]

What kind of batteries were you using, sweetkb713? As someone who uses a lot of rechargable batteries on various devices, I've found that depending on the type your using, you can encounter some natural power drain issues...

Again, I wasn't there. This was a classmate of mine. I've never had batteries drain that quickly, and I've used all kinds. I've been doing this in school for 10 years now (high school, undergrad, am now a grad student.)

I'm not going to bother replying anymore until people can stop obsessing about the batteries.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I'm not going to bother replying anymore until people can stop obsessing about the batteries.

I think people are obsessing on the batteries because even if they don't have a single clue (I know I don't) about the inner workings of a video camera, the one thing everyone can be sure of is that they need power. Thus the first explanation that would come to most minds is that something was interefering in the delivery of that power, i.e. the batteries were bad.

 

[sweetkb713]

And did that seem to cause the problem to stop?

It caused the battery problem to stop.

The batteries aren't the interesting thing here, though.

Geez.

What's interesting is that I filmed a documentary in a "haunted" house a year and a half ago. The guy has had his house (it's a haunted house attraction) on lots of shows - local, national, and international. He said that every camera crew had their batteries drain in the house. Even some local kid filmed an interview with him and had problems.

Mine didn't. He was surprised and said that I was the first person to film in the house to not have any problems at all. I dismissed him at first because I didn't know him, but after having remained in contact with him since that documentary I have come to realize that he is very, very skeptical about the things that people tell him about the house or what he himself experiences in the house.

He thinks that some kind of electrical interference or something like that is the cause of the batteries draining (not anything paranormal.)

Which is why I asked.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

It caused the battery problem to stop.

The batteries aren't the interesting thing here, though.

Geez.

What's interesting is that I filmed a documentary in a "haunted" house a year and a half ago. The guy has had his house (it's a haunted house attraction) on lots of shows - local, national, and international. He said that every camera crew had their batteries drain in the house. Even some local kid filmed an interview with him and had problems.

Mine didn't. He was surprised and said that I was the first person to film in the house to not have any problems at all. I dismissed him at first because I didn't know him, but after having remained in contact with him since that documentary I have come to realize that he is very, very skeptical about the things that people tell him about the house or what he himself experiences in the house.

He thinks that some kind of electrical interference or something like that is the cause of the batteries draining (not anything paranormal.)

Which is why I asked.

Actually my first thought, especially in light of your experience, about the guys house isn't some sort of electrical field (though I am no expert in that field by any means), but selective memory on his part. He may well be skeptical and very intelligent, but he is still human and prone to that sort of thing. I consider myself skeptical and very intelligent but my wife often points out that I can have selective memory about certain things (though in my case it's usually when I get annoyed at something and go off on a rant). No one is immune to all the little memory tricks and blind spots that come with our minds.

 

[Soapy Sam]

I apologise for being a bore, but could you supply the following data:-

1. The total number of cameras in use.
2. The total number which malfunctioned.
3. The make and model of all the cameras and which ones did and did not malfunction.
4. The type and storage data of the batteries involved- in particular, did a certain type discharge while another did not?
5. The make, model and power storage details of your own camera, which we know worked well in the same place.
(A table of these data might be revealing).

6. The exact location of the house and whether it is in an area where any electromagnetic anomaly might be expected- next to a power line, factory, radar installation etc.

Absent such data, I feel speculation is pointless. For example, you state that a remote control cannot affect a camera which is "off". This may be so. On the other hand, does "off" mean physically isolated from power, or in some sort of "sleep" mode?
The manufacturer's specs for the cameras might provide this information. Lacking that data, how can we tell?

 

[MRC_Hans]

A radio wave field could do all the things you mention, but it is very unlikely that such a field should be present. Fields of that magnitude are only present in the immidiate vicinity of strong transmitters, and I mean thousands of watts. Such transmitter installations are normally quite noticeable, so the fact that nobody mentioned it speaks heavily against it.

Let's recap..

Camaras turning on and off, starting and stopping, and otherwise behaving strangely, explanation: Somebody is using a remote control. Of course it can turn the camara on, how do you turn your TV on?

Batteries running out (you mentioned it, you live with it being addressed), explanation: Deliberately or clumsily badly charged batteries.

And on the other battery drain case (again you mentioned it, so I address it): I'm doubtful of the story, quite frankly. You see, there is some simple physics at play here. The energy density of rechargable batteries for modern appliances is so high that if you drain them in a short time (provided they were fully charged), they are going to get VERY hot, possibly even explode. No matter WHAT is draining that energy, the losses inside the battery will make it burning hot. I refuse to believe that numerous camaras should have been drained of power in some location without one account of violent overheating.

Oh, one other thing that might replace the remote control: You mentioned it was a bank vault? There is a slight possibility that some alarm equipment that is flooding the room with IR signals might activate the remote control function of the camaras, if it is for some reason still in operation. But that is a far shot.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

A little more on this:

*snip*
What's interesting is that I filmed a documentary in a "haunted" house a year and a half ago. The guy has had his house (it's a haunted house attraction) on lots of shows - local, national, and international. He said that every camera crew had their batteries drain in the house. Even some local kid filmed an interview with him and had problems.

Uhh, this guy is running a show. No matter how much he calls himself a skeptic (and if I had a buck for each woowoo who has called himself a skeptic.....), he has a vested interest in perpetuating the myth that something strange is going on in that house.

Mine didn't. He was surprised and said that I was the first person to film in the house to not have any problems at all.

Yeah, he couldn't very well claim that your battery ran out when it didn't, doh!

I dismissed him at first because I didn't know him, but after having remained in contact with him since that documentary I have come to realize that he is very, very skeptical about the things that people tell him about the house or what he himself experiences in the house.

No, he TELLS you he is skeptic, but he still tells those stories.

He thinks that some kind of electrical interference or something like that is the cause of the batteries draining (not anything paranormal.)

No apart from the very powerful transmitter mentioned, no electrical field could do this. AND, where are the hot batteries?

Which is why I asked.

Which is why I answered.

Lets face it: You have only this guy's words for the things he tells you. Your own observations at the place contradited his claims (to which he acted very surprised ). He has a personal interest in telling the story.

Sorry, but chances are that he is lying (or is totally deluded).

Hans

 

[Ratman_tf]

Well, I guess then that we're all just stupid graduate students who have no idea how a digital camera is supposed to work because we haven't been using them since they came out or anything.

Wow. Don't snap at me cause everyone else is making snarky ghost comments. I didnt' say ◊◊◊◊ about ghosts, just relayed my experience with digital cameras, which is pretty close to nothing actually.

 

[waitew]

Sweet,if it's a digital camera,why do you keep saying you have it on 'film'??

 

[Filippo Lippi]

My brother is a science teacher and is always messing with his kids' heads. There was a spoof kid's science show on BBC2 called "Look around you" a couple of years back and my brother plays it occasionally to one of his classes out of a sense of bedevilment.

The website for the programme is here Look around you

My point - teachers get bored

Custard is an element? Who knew?

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I'm confused about some things. Do these cameras have a physical power switch that cannot be controlled by a remote? Does the camera also have a standby/online switch? Can it be controlled by the remote?

SKB said:
They had problems with their fully charged batteries draining as they walked inside, with their cameras turning on and off (while in the "off" position) and turning off when they hit record, just to turn back on and keep recording!

How can you see this on the video? Is the physical switch flipping back and forth? If not, what do you mean by the camera turning on and off?

If it is a physical switch, it would have to be some mighty mighty electrical field to affect the camera's power.

What about a static electricity buildup? Could that have any affect?

SKB said:
I'm not going to bother replying anymore until people can stop obsessing about the batteries.

What, now certain aspects of the experience are off limits to discussion?

And no one is going to go back to see if it happens again?

~~ Paul

 

[sweetkb713]

I apologise for being a bore, but could you supply the following data:-

1. The total number of cameras in use.
2. The total number which malfunctioned.
3. The make and model of all the cameras and which ones did and did not malfunction.
4. The type and storage data of the batteries involved- in particular, did a certain type discharge while another did not?
5. The make, model and power storage details of your own camera, which we know worked well in the same place.
(A table of these data might be revealing).

6. The exact location of the house and whether it is in an area where any electromagnetic anomaly might be expected- next to a power line, factory, radar installation etc.

I don't know all this stuff as I wasn't there, as most people are forgetting, and I'm starting to forget what I saw. So it doesn't really matter anymore. I just thought this was something interesting to discuss.

For example, you state that a remote control cannot affect a camera which is "off". This may be so. On the other hand, does "off" mean physically isolated from power, or in some sort of "sleep" mode?
The manufacturer's specs for the cameras might provide this information. Lacking that data, how can we tell?

I thought that I did say that the camera was set to "off." Manually. That means that there is a little switch. It says "on" "off" "playback." It was set to "off." That means that the camera is off. Is that clearer?

 

[sweetkb713]

Camaras turning on and off, starting and stopping, and otherwise behaving strangely, explanation: Somebody is using a remote control. Of course it can turn the camara on, how do you turn your TV on?

Well, I don't have to flip a switch to turn my TV on. On camcorders you have to manually flip a switch to camera or playback.

Oh, one other thing that might replace the remote control: You mentioned it was a bank vault? There is a slight possibility that some alarm equipment that is flooding the room with IR signals might activate the remote control function of the camaras, if it is for some reason still in operation. But that is a far shot.

Hans [/B]

It was a bank vault. In the 1920's. It's not a bank anymore, hasn't been used as a bank for decades.