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Cable

I'm glad you see no need to donate it to any charities or help out your friends. You could use the money to buy even more expensive stereo cables.

Ward
 
It is my understanding (from reading the Swift Boat thread) that Mr Randi does not argue that different cables will not be differentiable. The issue is that if the cables have no measurable difference using test equipment (i.e. oscilloscope or other), then they will sound the same. If they have different resistance, capacitance, rf sensitivity, etc than can be measured on a scope, then that is science, not Woo. So rule one of the test is to demonstrate that the cables measure identically. I will note that any cable that has a components other than wire and connectors (like the MIT) will be ruled out on that basis; they actively and measurably alter the signal. I have to believe that the resistance in a coat hanger is measurably different from even cheap speaker wire.
 
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Jamie Tate said:
The results surprised me. Of the three wires I used (Coat Hanger, Mogami Studio Wire and an expensive Silver Cable) the majority (somewhere around 60%) preferred the $1/foot Mogami studio wire.
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The results surprised me too. I can honestly say that all three takes of the DBQ sounded like ******************* thru my laptop speakers.

And I love that song.
 
Get said:
There are things much more important than money and apart from that I'm really not all that interested in money. Not because I'm rich, but because I have enough and am in no hurry whatsoever to expand it.
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I know there are a few people in the world for whom a million dollars is not worth their time (Bill Gates, Warren Buffett). Then there are spiritual or hippie types who eschew money (I know a few people personally who claim this attitude, however I'm not sure what they would really do if the opportunity presented itself to gain millions). But it seems like of the few people out there who just don't need a million dollars for a few days' work, a large proportion of them visit the JREF forums.

I, for one, have sufficient money but would gladly welcome a million dollars even for a year's work.

ETA: Also, I understand that there are some things more important than money -- family, learning, whatever. But it's hard to imagine for Get or anyone else that taking this test would interfere with those pursuits.
 
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TheClaw;7189528ETA: said:
Also, I understand that there are some things more important than money -- family, learning, whatever.
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Have you never considered the value of beaver? They can be most entertaining on a stream, and even more valuable when on a warm tropical beach. I have always held the beaver high on my list of important things...I mean like, what would I do without the beaver?

I can see where a dude might decide not to make a million dollars, in a day, if it would salvage his relationship with some beavers.

Growing up, I always looked forward to Mutual of Omaha's, "Wild Kingdom". Especially the episodes when Jim Fowler would float down a stream and get all tangled up with some feral beavers that he had no intention of diving into.

Then Marlin Perkins would make some sly comment about Jim's wife (Mary) being at home alone, whilest Jim was out playing with the beaver...I used to love Sunday nights on NBC.
 
TheClaw said:
But it's hard to imagine for Get or anyone else that taking this test would interfere with those pursuits.
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Hard, but not impossible I would say. Health is one pursuit that you didn't mention.
 
What is supernatural about being able to tell between speaker cables? Why would the JREF care?
 
dropzone said:
What is supernatural about being able to tell between speaker cables? Why would the JREF care?
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The JREF cares because they object to people being taken advantage of by those who would cash in on the general public's lack of critical thinking skills. It's not about the supernatural, in this case, but about exposing the high-end, esoteric audio tweak market for the nest of fraudulent vipers they are.

Because, you see, no one, to date, has ever demonstrated an actual ability to tell between speaker cables.
 
But...but...but, EVERYBODY in the business KNOWS it's a scam. And we aren't Gypsies operating on the edges of society. These comparison tests have been done, and published, for more than ten years. The JREF has no business looking into it, except as a laugh. And it'd be joining a lot of us in the biz.

Speaking as an A/V pro:

1. Cables that are too skinny are crap. Don't try to send speaker level more than six feet over 22ga cable.

2. ETA: For line audio, 18ga works for a surprising distance. It won't be cranked and just needs to carry analog data.

3. For interconnects, just about any **** works fine. Better-quality interconnects work better. Not because of the cable, but because of the connections and the connectors.

4. From amp to speaker, the more copper, the better. The details fall back on, "the better the connection the better the cable."

So this is paranormal...how?
 
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I think we have to make an important distinction between things like:
  1. cables made of different kinds and thicknesses of wire, and
  2. audio improvement devices like the passive, coin-sized gadget that claimed to affect digital sound by placement on top of your CD player.

The first one has a very slight chance of a double-blind difference; not enough to justify the outrageous prices charged for some cables, but enough that some purists with unlimited funds might feel important. This claim may not be 100% woo, so not appropriate for the MDC.

The second falls squarely in the 100% woo category, as there is no known way a coin sized device (I forget the name and/or manufacturer) can alter the digital characteristics of a CD as claimed. This one is appropriate for the MDC.
 
And its mechanism is quickly determined. Mechanisms are not paranormal, which is what the Prize is all about. The unexplainable is what gets you the million bucks.
 
dropzone said:
And its mechanism is quickly determined. Mechanisms are not paranormal, which is what the Prize is all about. The unexplainable is what gets you the million bucks.
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The mechanism is easily explainable and has been explained.

The unexplainable is what the manufacturers claim.

They cannot prove that claim.
 
dropzone said:
But...but...but, EVERYBODY in the business KNOWS it's a scam. And we aren't Gypsies operating on the edges of society. These comparison tests have been done, and published, for more than ten years. The JREF has no business looking into it, except as a laugh. And it'd be joining a lot of us in the biz.

Speaking as an A/V pro:

1. Cables that are too skinny are crap. Don't try to send speaker level more than six feet over 22ga cable.

2. ETA: For line audio, 18ga works for a surprising distance. It won't be cranked and just needs to carry analog data.

3. For interconnects, just about any **** works fine. Better-quality interconnects work better. Not because of the cable, but because of the connections and the connectors.

4. From amp to speaker, the more copper, the better. The details fall back on, "the better the connection the better the cable."

So this is paranormal...how?
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Dropzone,

Do you believe that you could hear the difference between twelve foot lengths of 18ga lampcord bought at Home Depot, and 10ga, finely stranded, oxygen-free copper speaker wire bought at a high end stereo shop?
 
Gr8wight said:
Dropzone,

Do you believe that you could hear the difference between twelve foot lengths of 18ga lampcord bought at Home Depot, and 10ga, finely stranded, oxygen-free copper speaker wire bought at a high end stereo shop?
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Nope. Especially since I'm half deaf. ;)

Actually, I've found that having some hearing loss and tinnitus means that I'm very picky about the quality of audio, more than I was back when I was destroying my hearing.

ETA: A better comparison would be with 18ga, finely stranded, oxygen-free copper speaker wire bought at a high end stereo shop. Adding all the extra copper in a 10ga cable might have an effect.
 
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Sean84 said:
The unexplainable is what the manufacturers claim.
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But where does the paranormal come in? Being unexplainable simply because it's BS while lacking a paranormal component hardly qualifies for the Challenge.
 
dropzone said:
Nope. Especially since I'm half deaf. ;)
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Fine.
Do you know anybody that you believe could hear the difference between twelve foot lengths of 18ga lampcord bought at Home Depot, and 10ga, finely stranded, oxygen-free copper speaker wire bought at a high end stereo shop?
 
You're back with that heavy gauge stuff. And with top-end equipment, if there's a difference to be heard, I probably could hear a difference if there were one. Being a bit deaf means I need to be discriminating, to listen deeper, and to design the room as much as the system. And, therefore, I've designed some awesome theaters that made billionaires very happy.

ETA: However, I have received no reports that the 10'x20' Chihuly glass chandelier exploded the first time that computer mogul's kids cranked the system. My life is incomplete. :(

FTR: We sold them mid-tier cables. Good copper and well-attached connectors, with the latter being more important. Anything more expensive was a waste and you don't become a billionaire by throwing away money.

And I still don't see the woo, if it exists, as anything that couldn't be learned, making it not-woo.
 
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