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Cable

Get said:
Still in the amplifierbuyingcycle.
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I remember when I was new in the audio business, and I asked a co-worker what equipment a true audiophile would buy. His reply? Don't be silly, true audiophiles never actually buy anything. They just talk about it forever.
 
@MRC Hans: In the meantime maybe you can get in thepuberalphase, because you seem to be stuck in the prepubertyzone (strange accent, no?).

@Gr8wight: so, your co-worker didn't know what he was talking about. What exactly is your point?
 
Well, IMHO, chainingwordstogetherwithoutspaces is a strange accent, Dutch or not.

In my age, being accused of adolescent behavior is a compliment. :roll:

Hans
 
Gr8wight said:
My co-worker was making a joke, but it seems to have stung you a bit...
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The best irony has a substantial helping of truth, eh? :)

I think at this point we're in the "dontholdyourbreathwaitingforthis" cycle, myself.
 
Shrike said:
Hi Get.

It's been over a month, but my offer still stands. Any news?
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Get is still shopping for an amp. He'll Get back to us in a year or two with a progress report. By that time he'll have it narrowed down to two or three possibilities...until the new lines come out.
 
jj said:
But the one in question was an acclaimed audiophile design. What more do I need to say?
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Back in the "good old times" when some of my friends were into that audiophile stuff, i had the chance to look in quite a few such "high end" amplifiers. It seems that they are mostly built by a simple set of rules:

1) Either take a ridiculously simple circuit design, or take an excessively complex one.

2) In case of the simple one, reduce it even more, because more parts = more bad bad-sound-sources. In case of the complex one, add more parts because few parts = too simple a thing.

3) Create the actual layout so that it looks very good. Do not care about engineering aspects. It just has to look damn good.

4) Have the boards hand-soldered by 12 year olds. If you can't employ 12 year olds, any old bloke who can't solder properly will do as well. Improvise as much as possible and claim it comes with "built-in tweaks" already.

5) Have someone make an enclosure and knobs that together weighs half a ton. The more weight the better it will sound, they think.

6) Profit!

As a bonus you can sell an audiophile power cable as an extra. Make sure it looks shiny and the price tag is at least half of that of the amplifier. However, if you do that you never ever can tell the customer about the many hundred meters of really, really thin copper wire in the transformers primary.

Greetings,

Chris
 
The atmosphere here is like to be expected, but no less uncomfortable. Just to please you...I couldn't hear a difference between two cables blindfolded, so there's no difference. I haven't got a new amp yet, but did it with an old not so great amp, but that must do for now. If the story continues I won't share it here, unless it's worthwhile to share ( "I won some money!" or something along those lines). Maybe the only real conclusion I can draw now is that the "somewhat hostile" atmosphere among non-believers (which I haven't encountered only here) makes the knowers less interested to prove anything to the people causing that atmosphere. Score for the time being : non-believers-knowers: 1-0. halftime.
 
Get said:
The atmosphere here is like to be expected, but no less uncomfortable. Just to please you...I couldn't hear a difference between two cables blindfolded, so there's no difference. I haven't got a new amp yet, but did it with an old not so great amp, but that must do for now. If the story continues I won't share it here, unless it's worthwhile to share ( "I won some money!" or something along those lines). Maybe the only real conclusion I can draw now is that the "somewhat hostile" atmosphere among non-believers (which I haven't encountered only here) makes the knowers less interested to prove anything to the people causing that atmosphere. Score for the time being : non-believers-knowers: 1-0. halftime.
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Knowers? Since it appears you were wrong about your claim, what exactly is it that you think you know?
 
Yes Get, you will get some reactions which are not so nice. I could say that you could grow a somewhat thicker skin.
Or better still, prove 'them' wrong. And how much more wrong can they be with a cool million dollars in your pocket (€ 722.856,73 as per today*)? And see some of the other entries in this sub-forum for the other cash prices you can win as well.

* Not sure how much our taxes take from this of course.
 
Get said:
The atmosphere here is like to be expected, but no less uncomfortable. Just to please you...I couldn't hear a difference between two cables blindfolded, so there's no difference.
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Thanks for your honesty. However, the only conclusion you can safely draw is that ... you couldn't hear a difference.

Now this is just to introduce you to a little scientific thinking, I do, of course, agree with you: There is no difference.

I haven't got a new amp yet, but did it with an old not so great amp, but that must do for now.
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Obviously, the amp shouldn't be critical as long as its a good one. After all, its the cable you are testing, not the amp.

If the story continues I won't share it here, unless it's worthwhile to share
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In fact that is generally a good idea when communicating with others: Only share what is worthwhile to share.

Maybe the only real conclusion I can draw now is that the "somewhat hostile" atmosphere among non-believers (which I haven't encountered only here) makes the knowers less interested to prove anything to the people causing that atmosphere.
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I actually doubt that; both you and other "knowers" would love to stick a positive result in the face of skeptics. ... If you had one.

Score for the time being : non-believers-knowers: 1-0. halftime.
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Except that I'm a knower. ..... You know, I happen to know that all decent cables sound alike. I have this knowledge from a comprehensive understanding of the science behind cables and analog sound systems, and unlike you, I can in fact explain why I know.

Hans
 
Shrike said:
I could say that you could grow a somewhat thicker skin.
Or better still, prove 'them' wrong.
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My skin is very thick. Dont you worry about that. I just don't want to post here everything that happens and that has also, but not only, to do with the sort of reactions I'm getting. Uninviting.
This cablething isn't the only thing in my life of course, so I'm in no hurry and "proving them wrong" isn't why I'm doing this. Btw even when someone can hear a difference the people that don't hear it still wil not be hearing it I pressume. I will do a better test someday and then when I can do it I will do the test in Belgium and when that's done or when I can't do it to begin with in perfect conditions I will post again. Even when I can't do it blindfolded under "strain" that doesn't mean to me that there's no difference. The conditions then are of course not the same as when you're not blindfolded and you're listening relaxed. That's not a fact to be counted with here I think, but for me it is. Other entries? I can't do anything special that I'm aware of.
 
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MRC_Hans said:
Obviously, the amp shouldn't be critical as long as its a good one. After all, its the cable you are testing, not the amp.
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I think that this is something that should be stated very carefully. I have seen quite some of these so-called audiophile amplifiers that did very strange things depending on the used cable. Most of them oscillated at frequencies way above the audible spectrum, like 80kHz or more. I even encountered one that happily oscillated at over 1MHz. This is of course a fault of the amplifier design in general.

However, these oscillations were directly influenced by the type & length of cable used. It's no surprise that this can (and certainly will) cause IM distortions in the audible spectrum that can be heard by experienced listeners.

But i stress it again: this is due to the bad (read: either oversimplified or overcomplicated) design of some of these "high end" amplifiers.

For that reason i would highly recommend that the actual signal is checked with every cable combination on an oscilloscope for unwanted oscillations/ringing prior to the test itself.

Greetings,

Chris

ETA: In fact, if i were to do such testing, i would demand that _no_ audiophile or "high-end" amplifier is used at all. Instead i would insist of using a (recording-)studio amplifier of good quality. For one, it's the type of amplifier that is used in the production of the listening material and as such is probably the closest to what the audio engineers heard during production. And second, these amps are known for good quality and good circuit design, usually.
 
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Christian Klippel said:
... if i were to do such testing, i would demand that _no_ audiophile or "high-end" amplifier is used at all. Instead i would insist of using a (recording-)studio amplifier of good quality.
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Agreed. One of the things I frequently have to explain to audiophiles is that studio equipment isn't supposed to sound good. It's supposed to sound accurate.
 
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