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Bullycide

[annoyed]
I don't care about adults being bullied. Dog eat dog world and what not...get your helmet on.

Also, I find it curious that the implication has been made recently that adult men "bullying" adult women on a message board was somehow unseemly. Doesn't the interwebz work as the perfect gender neutralizer? How is a man any more "armed" on the intrawebz than a woman is? There is no physical danger. If anything, I would argue that women are better armed in this virtual environment because of their (broad strokes) better communication and emotional skill sets.
[/annoyed]

Dear Mr. Purple,

All you're noting is that it is to women's advantage to fight dirty online by playing the discrimination card. And that makes them better armed in this virtual environment.

Yours,

Cpl Ferro
 
Who, exactly, are the whingers? The parents whose children have committed suicide? The children who have died? Or the children whose education is being interrupted because school has become such a hostile place?




So, you take an emotionally fragile child, torture them, and then blame the child for "snapping?"



Like people with Asperger syndrome, for example. Do they deserve to be bullied because they are not likable?



Please excuse me while I spit out the words you just put in my mouth.

Okay, that's done. According to the reading I've done, the boys at Columbine were the bullies, not victims of bullies. Perhaps if their bullying had been stopped earlier, the shootings would not have happened. I don't know. Neither do you.

I know very little about the Tuscon shooter, but it appears he is mentally ill and a bit of a bully himself, judging from his classroom behavior.



Okay, you deserved to be bullied because you were different. I did not.



It takes a certain amount of strength, physical and emotional, for either of those solutions. My thought is to help people achieve that strength.



Yep. And coining victimspeak ain't a way to build strength. I'm opposed to that completely.

My feathers are a tad ruffled at the use of the word "children" when the majority of kids who kill themselves in these situations are teenagers.

So it's a tugging heart strings kind of approach.

Instead of a campaign for victimspeak, I really liked the "It get's better" approach that was used earlier. I think that is much more empowering. The other thing is parents need to get involved with their kids more. I'm not blaming the parents but I'm shocked that some of these parents have no idea what is going on in their kids life. The teen years are dangerous. I can't imagine not paying attention to my teens.
 
You are absolutely correct! That is a reasonable reason to not use the word bullycide. However something like "nerdicide" is a continuation of the bullying.

Dear LL,

Then, that leaves us back to where we were in the first place, using normal language.

Personally, I advocate bullies be fitted with shock collars keyed to close proximity with a victim's wristwatch (do people still carry wristwatches?).

Yours,

Cpl Ferro
 
It's also a little creepy to me when "weirdo" kids with emotional problems are picked on. Then they do something bonkers and everyone blames the bullying for making them snap.

Almost every time I hear about cases like this the kid himself talked about excessive bullying to parents, to therapists, in emails, etc. so it's not like this bullying diagnosis is coming out of nowhere.

There are some types of people that other people just don't like. They get a weird vibe about them.
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What causes a group to react so negatively towards one person. It happened to me and years later I realized uh, yeah I WAS a weirdo. It does make sense. It shows.

Of course it makes sense. I understand it's mostly social. People naturally form in-groups and out-goups. People naturally form social hierarchies. People who are unsure about their own position in a hierarchy, or who want to improve their position, will attempt to strengthen it. If you harass that weird kid you emphasize your own position, and if you do it in a group, the rest of the group sees you as one of them.

It does make sense, but isn't high school, or adolescence in general, supposed to be about educating these kids, not releasing them to their own devices in a world of no responsibility and low expectations and seeing what happens?
 
I was actually going to toss England in there as well because they've gotten quite good at whinging as well.

...snip....

It is nothing new, what is new is that it is now getting the attention it should have had years ago.

I knew someone who was found on a railway line at the age of 12 trying to kill himself (30 plus years ago), thankfully he did not succeed but the damage the bullying did remains with him today.
 
You are absolutely correct! That is a reasonable reason to not use the word bullycide. However something like "nerdicide" is a continuation of the bullying.

You know, when I read your thread title, I also thought for a moment that it was about killing bullies - and for a short, fleeting moment that I am not too proud of, I thought, "Great! Let´s get started!"
 
You are absolutely correct! That is a reasonable reason to not use the word bullycide. However something like "nerdicide" is a continuation of the bullying.

No! You're looking at it all wrong. We have to take the power away from the word and use it ourselves! I proudly proclaim my nerdness.

Own it sista. Let your nerd flag fly.
:)
 
I'm a little hesitant about starting a new thread about bullying. However, it is a subject about which I am so interested in and have a lot of emotional investment in. My last venture was sidetracked, so I'd like to start fresh and in a more specific way.

There is a new term out there, "bullycide," the act of bullying another person until they commit suicide. Whether or not suicide is the outcome the bully is seeking, it applies. I first heard the term last week on a judge show, of all places.

The show led me to this Web site as well.

There have been arguments made on this forum that the victims of bullying only need to stand up for themselves and the problem will be solved. I believe it is more complicated than that. I speak as a past victim of bullying, in junior high school (age 13) and in my family. Unless the "standing up" is done in an effective way, it can actually exacerbate the problem, rather than solving it, and most victims, especially the children, are not educated about and certainly do not know instinctively how to deal with it effectively.

Often, the victim is somehow different than the majority, perceived as gay, atheist, or otherwise not the "norm."

We are a community, a community of skeptics. Is there something that we as a group can do to help alleviate this problem? If the answer is no, what should we be doing as individuals? Or is this not an issue we should deal with at all? I am open to that answer.

I would like to hear thoughts about this. I know it is an emotional issue for some of us.
After Phoebe Cates killed herself they arrested the bullys. There should be more of that. Tell the teachers and principals to take more responsibility when it comes to these. I read once where some poor girl with a deformed arm was tormented and one day some punk set her hair on fire. The principal sent her home "for her own protection" and the scumbag who set her hair on fire was still in attendence at the school.

We need to weed out morons like that principal and see to it that the consequences of pushing someone arround are severe enough to where it makes a difference.

When you tell some weaker student to "stand up" to a stronger punk or worse a crowd of punks it is meaningless. There should be expulsions, student participation in stopping the torments and the parents of the bulllys should be fined big time.
 
Almost every time I hear about cases like this the kid himself talked about excessive bullying to parents, to therapists, in emails, etc. so it's not like this bullying diagnosis is coming out of nowhere.



Of course it makes sense. I understand it's mostly social. People naturally form in-groups and out-goups. People naturally form social hierarchies. People who are unsure about their own position in a hierarchy, or who want to improve their position, will attempt to strengthen it. If you harass that weird kid you emphasize your own position, and if you do it in a group, the rest of the group sees you as one of them.

It does make sense, but isn't high school, or adolescence in general, supposed to be about educating these kids, not releasing them to their own devices in a world of no responsibility and low expectations and seeing what happens?


Well it's funny because in one of my classes there is this super creepy girl. She's aggressive and mean and actually scares me. She's got somewhat of a brutish look to her and she just has an odd personality. I was thinking of the movie Carrie the other day and thinking of how the teachers also didn't help the girl. I was wondering what it is, what can I do with the girl. I feel sorry for her, she's from Russia and speaks very little English and registered to sit in an SAT prep. None of the students in the class make fun of her, they are actually quite nice to her. But she did strike me as someone who would have been bullied.


Also I do believe in holding adminstrators and teachers responsible for bullying. Adults yes, but teens no way. It is not someone elses fault if you kill yourself. It is your choice.
 
Yep. And coining victimspeak ain't a way to build strength. I'm opposed to that completely.

My feathers are a tad ruffled at the use of the word "children" when the majority of kids who kill themselves in these situations are teenagers.

So it's a tugging heart strings kind of approach.

Instead of a campaign for victimspeak, I really liked the "It get's better" approach that was used earlier. I think that is much more empowering. The other thing is parents need to get involved with their kids more. I'm not blaming the parents but I'm shocked that some of these parents have no idea what is going on in their kids life. The teen years are dangerous. I can't imagine not paying attention to my teens.
No, no it really doesn't always work like that. For a classic example:


Hi, I was a mentally unstable child who was bullied emotionally and mentally, but never once physically and it caused me to snap. I had what pretty much amounted to a minor mental and emotional breakdown when I was 18. If I had tried to fight the people who were bullying me, I'd have gotten into trouble for fighting right after having my head kicked in, so that's not exactly the greatest idea in the world, and I think the message that you're sending (Hey kids, being bullied? Violence is the answer!) is monumentally stupid. Sometimes fighting back can indeed work, but if you're most certainly the weakest person in the equation, that can amount to a massive ass kicking and then punishment for being the disruptive influence.

So many times I wanted to beat the people who bullied me (boys and girls here, I was an equal opportunity target) I had exceptionally violent thoughts about all of these people due to the vast amount of pent up rage I had at these nasty people who were making my life hell. When I got to be 16 I had a good network of friends and the bullying had actually stopped, but by that time I was massively paranoid and hugely insecure about absolutely everything. I was convinced that my friends were secretly making fun of me, and that I wasn't liked by them. Any time I did something stupid (and being human, I did) that got one or more of them mad at me for a short period, it further drove the idea into my brain that these people hated me.

It got to a point where I would not be naked in my own bedroom at home. Why? Because I was convinced they had placed a camera in my light-fitting and were secretly recording me. That's right, my mental state was in such tatters that I was convinced my friends, most of whom were really good friends and really good people, had broken into my house (or in my really dark moments, colluded with my parents) to install a secret camera in my bedroom. This went on for months and I was getting more and more ill in the head. What this paranoia did to me beyond totally ruining my whole self perception and sense of trust was that it also made me a horrible, evil two-faced little bastard. I fully admit it now, because I was NASTY. Really horrible to these people who genuinely liked me because I was convinced that they hated my guts. It didn't help that I hated my guts as well, and that everything negative anyone had ever called me sank in and stayed there like a silently brewing acid deep inside me.

I was, to put it bluntly, a massive ticking time-bomb which finally went off just before I departed for University. I went absolutely mental, hitting walls until I started breaking the skin on my knuckles, screaming when I knew I was alone at the entire world, crying myself to sleep most nights, just crying on others, losing sleep at night and being tired and angry all the next day. After a while, I pretty much got all the rage out in secret, but not everything else, and the rest of the negative feelings just kept eating away at me. I finally broke down in front of my mother in the car on the way to dropping an application form off for a job at ASDA. I was a total wreck, utterly incapable of bettering myself or my life because I was convinced I was a worthless waste of oxygen and flesh, forever doomed to being a drain on everyone and having no one to like me.

Going to University did help, having friends who I actually could tell were genuine, having grown up a lot following my episode and genuinely having fun all helped. I wasn't perfect, I still attempted suicide once, and one night got so depressed I took my ties and shoelaces and hid them away, locking myself in my room. I still lacked sleep much of the time, and I was still fragile, but the paranoia had all but gone and I was finally able to be a normal functioning adult, after a fashion. I'm still unstable. I still get depressed, although I haven't thought about suicide since my cousin killed himself about two years ago now. I'm recovering day by day, little by little and if I start to slump again, I'm heading straight for a psychologist and getting professional help. I seriously doubt that fighting back would have helped. In fact, in one instance I did threaten the bullies, and they laughed at me. I knew I wouldn't be able to follow it up, so that just crushed me even more.


Don't assume that everyone is like you, and that fighting can help. Sometimes it just isn't an option, and even when it is, it's likely not always the best option. I don't know what to do myself, so I guess I shouldn't criticise, but when I see people saying that fighting the bully physically is the best way and all the namby pamby crap doesn't work, well I look at my life and I think "Yeah, of course that helps".
 
I'm not saying that everyone is like me. Of course not. But I'm curious about exactly your experience. I'm also interested in this because I think I have a degree of Asperger's. And so it makes sense that I come across differently than others. It seems that when there is no introspection at all on the part of the person who has been bullied, then it tends to create a life pattern of projection, blame and playing the victim. Let me be clear I do NOT think you were not vicitimized. You certainly were victimized horribly and violence for you was not the answer at all.

However I do wonder why you took it with you and couldn't be alone in the room because "they" could have hidden a camera. It suggests to me a sort of disassociation with the self, instead of saying "Ok they don't like me because I'm X" it becomes somewhat of a paranoia.

Again, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here. I'm curious about the differences between people who seem to be able to grow in spite of trauma and oppression and personalities that seem to shut down.

What causes that difference? Is is something we can promote and teach? Is it possible to develope this in anyone? Or is it not. I'd think that sort of an approach would be more meaningful. Ending bullying isn't really going to end the problem as your example clearly shows.

Thanks for being brave enough to share that!
 
You know, when I read your thread title, I also thought for a moment that it was about killing bullies - and for a short, fleeting moment that I am not too proud of, I thought, "Great! Let´s get started!"

I figured it was a thread about victims who kill their bullies. I was prepared to be very, very supportive of the killers, and still am.
If you kill your bully and I'm on your jury, you'll go free.
 
Oh great yet another coined term of victimization in the US. Like we didn't have enough already. Lets just keep churning 'em out. Meanwhile elsewhere in the world people are dying from lack or water, oppression and war and starvation. But ya know we gotta give it to the Americans, we sure do know how to make ourselves feel sorry for ourselves.

I was bullied relentlessly as a kid. Beaten up nearly every day after school. It sucked. I worked through it. I can see that it can cause someone to become suicidal and of course should be stopped at all costs. But please, enought with the victimspeak.

What's next? Wrist bands and ribbon pins?

I know, right? What's with this complaining about bullying when there's starving children in Africa?

And you know what's even worse? There are people complaining about language? Crazy, isn't it? Can you imagine the nerve of some people, being so concerned about the ways that other people use words.

I mean, what's with this complaining about words when there's starving children in Africa?
 
I'm not saying that everyone is like me. Of course not. But I'm curious about exactly your experience. I'm also interested in this because I think I have a degree of Asperger's. And so it makes sense that I come across differently than others. It seems that when there is no introspection at all on the part of the person who has been bullied, then it tends to create a life pattern of projection, blame and playing the victim. Let me be clear I do NOT think you were not vicitimized. You certainly were victimized horribly and violence for you was not the answer at all.

However I do wonder why you took it with you and couldn't be alone in the room because "they" could have hidden a camera. It suggests to me a sort of disassociation with the self, instead of saying "Ok they don't like me because I'm X" it becomes somewhat of a paranoia.

Again, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here. I'm curious about the differences between people who seem to be able to grow in spite of trauma and oppression and personalities that seem to shut down.

What causes that difference? Is is something we can promote and teach? Is it possible to develope this in anyone? Or is it not. I'd think that sort of an approach would be more meaningful. Ending bullying isn't really going to end the problem as your example clearly shows.

Thanks for being brave enough to share that!
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but are you essentially saying based on the sum of your posts, that because I was already mentally unstable, I would have snapped in the same way anyway, and that it's understandable that I was bullied?
 
What causes a group to react so negatively towards one person. It happened to me and years later I realized uh, yeah I WAS a weirdo. It does make sense. It shows.


So it's wrong to be different and you got what you deserved?

That's novel.
 
Well, the term makes no sense.

Bullycide should mean killing of a bully (like patricide means killing of one's father).

Suicide by bully would be a more correct term (like suicide by cop).

I have been a victim of bullying and verbal/physical abuse. I've spent a lot of time in my life kicking bullies' butts. I don't think skeptics have a greater responsibility to do so than anyone else. It's the right thing to do for everyone.
 
So it's wrong to be different and you got what you deserved?

That's novel.

Well, you see, mental disorders are hilarious. However, they're not nearly as funny as crippled people, or people with a different skin color. Why, just the other day I couldn't help but chortle uncontrollably at the sight of a black man in a wheelchair. I mean, he deserved it, really. He's obviously doing something to make himself so dark-skinned and handicapped.
 

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