Building 7 Exploding BEFORE WTC1 "Collapse"

I think at some point, some fighter jets arived and made a low pass over the city. I have seen a few refrences to this event in interviews wher people heard the sounds of the jets over head and freaked. I wonder if that is what was happening here?
 
Also, who is taking the video?

Why do these guys have 1/2 face respirators on? Where did they get them? Is that standard gear?
 
Seems to me IIRC that this clip originally was taken from a TV docudrama about 9/11. When uploaded to YouTube with the 'explosion', it was excitedly cited by twoofers as being another smoking gun. In any case, if you listen to the distortion on voice of the guy who passes the phone and then the clarity of audio of the 'explosion', it's immediately obvious that the 'explosion' was added after-the-fact.

Such is the quality of 9/11 'truth'.

eta:

The clip's been discussed here (Dec. 2007) and here (Feb. 2007)
 
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fitzgibbon said:
Seems to me IIRC that this clip originally was taken from a TV docudrama about 9/11.
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The clip was probably shot by one Lucia Davis. She's in IMBD and credited as being included in these TV shows. I'd love to see them.

1. 7 Days in September (2002) (field crew: Broadcast News Networks 9/11)
1. "MSNBC Investigates" .... Herself (1 episode, 2001)
- 24 Hours at Ground Zero (2001) TV episode .... Herself

She's in IMBD and someone with a paid IMDB account can send her a message she might read.

 
sheeplesnshills said:
Loud noise makes the two policemen flinch and look around towards the South (The direction of the WTC Towers).
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I'm still pretty confident that these men are reacting to the approaching fireman, who appears to have been shouting at them. It makes for a convenient place to dub in an explosion.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
I'm still pretty confident that these men are reacting to the approaching fireman, who appears to have been shouting at them. It makes for a convenient place to dub in an explosion.
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Perhaps but the camera does pan up and to the south so I do think it was from something happening where the south tower came down. There would be lots of reasons for there being very loud noises from there.
 
Macgyver1968 said:
You really don't need to do shadow analysis to determine the video happened after at least one of the towers collapsed. There's dust all over the place, and the guy is wearing a dust mask. If it happened before the collapse..there wouldn't be any dust or need for a mask.
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And if it happened before the collapse of either tower, why would firefighters ignore an explosion to call their MOM or loved ones?

hmmm... damn them NWO operatives...
 
It is amazing...
I left comments on the page and they were deleted. Gee... i wonder why?
Why is it that the truth movement will accept any ******* crazy idea, but then delete comments which say, look at the debris on the ground it is after the first tower collapsed.

or why would they want to call family or their mom to tell them they are ok if it is before a tower collapsed?
 
In keeping with the jammonius approach of defining things to be whatever you want them to be, I declare that the time on the video is 11:15 (by the guy's watch), both towers have collapsed, and building 7 actually IS having explosions/issues by that time. :)
 
Now that I've had a chance to extract the audio and listen in the studio, I tend to agree with Fitzgibbon. It sounds like the record level was set too high and the voices were consequently clipped. Any other sound of greater amplitude than the voices (which the explosion sound definitely is) should also have been clipped, severely. But the explosion is nice and clean.

Also, I looked for the artifacts one would expect from the limiters commonly found in the audio chain of a portable video camera, i.e., flattening of the envelope of the explosions and a significant ducking effect on other sounds and they don't seem to be there.

It's not something I can prove objectively, but it sure does smell like someone dicking around with an SFX library.
 
ktesibios said:
Now that I've had a chance to extract the audio and listen in the studio, I tend to agree with Fitzgibbon. It sounds like the record level was set too high and the voices were consequently clipped. Any other sound of greater amplitude than the voices (which the explosion sound definitely is) should also have been clipped, severely. But the explosion is nice and clean.

Also, I looked for the artifacts one would expect from the limiters commonly found in the audio chain of a portable video camera, i.e., flattening of the envelope of the explosions and a significant ducking effect on other sounds and they don't seem to be there.

It's not something I can prove objectively, but it sure does smell like someone dicking around with an SFX library.
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Can you get a plot showing the clipping?
 
I think the 10:18 time is close enough that it doesn't matter much -- I think it was sometime between the two collapses, which is the important point. My initial estimate of 10:20 to 10:50 was based on a guess about the angle of the shadow of the fireman on the sidewalk, but I don't consider that to be anything but a ballpark. This new YouTruth video uses a different video from an HBO special, which includes a few seconds earlier shot looking at the shadow of the restaurant's canopy on the wall. There isn't any detail about how that analysis was done, but 10:18 seems to be in pretty good agreement with the fireman's watch.

I've listened to that sound track several dozen time now, and I'm still not sure what the fireman says, but it really doesn't sound like "seven's exploding." My best guess is "something's exploding" or perhaps "stuff is exploding." Anyway, it doesn't seem likely that from two blocks away with tall buildings and a lot of dust and smoke between them, anyone on that street could positively identify the sound as coming from WTC7.

I saw a comment on one board by someone who claimed that an engineer friend had noticed that the audio was in mono when the people were speaking but the explosion sound was in stereo. I've downloaded several versions, but the only ones I've found so far are either mono audio tracks, or stereo with identical audio on both tracks, including the explosion section. Looking at the wave profiles, there appears to be some evidence of an analog limiter in action throughout the track -- no real clipping where the waves are chopped off flatly at the top, but some apparent rounding -- but I can't see any real difference in the explosion section. The highest peaks are about the same level throughout. Spectrum analysis shows the same range of frequencies throughout -- just more low frequencies during the explosion (which might be expected) -- so that doesn't seem to indicate tampering.

It seems strange that the original version with some credible provenance hasn't turned up, but I'm willing to accept that the explosion sound might be genuine. The "truther" problems remain, of course, that A) that video doesn't really identify the source, and we know lots of stuff was exploding after the first collapse spread a lot of fire; and B) this was about 7 hours before WTC7 fell, so "controlled demolition cutter charges" doesn't seem like a very good guess.
 
WilliamSeger said:
I saw a comment on one board by someone who claimed that an engineer friend had noticed that the audio was in mono when the people were speaking but the explosion sound was in stereo.
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The original upload of this was very definitely stereo SFX on the 'explosion' and was re-upped by whomever with the audio centre-panned once they were outted.

WilliamSeger said:
I've downloaded several versions, but the only ones I've found so far are either mono audio tracks, or stereo with identical audio on both tracks, including the explosion section. Looking at the wave profiles, there appears to be some evidence of an analog limiter in action throughout the track -- no real clipping where the waves are chopped off flatly at the top, but some apparent rounding -- but I can't see any real difference in the explosion section.
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It isn't so much clipping so much as compression on the sync audio, compression that isn't there on the 'explosion'. I'm doing this by ear as I off-line edit television shows for a living.

WilliamSeger said:
The highest peaks are about the same level throughout. Spectrum analysis shows the same range of frequencies throughout -- just more low frequencies during the explosion (which might be expected) -- so that doesn't seem to indicate tampering.
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But there's just so much presence and mid-frequencies that should be audible that're missing from the sync audio and that suddenly appear in the 'explosion' alone. That's one clear red flag among many.

WilliamSeger said:
It seems strange that the original version with some credible provenance hasn't turned up, but I'm willing to accept that the explosion sound might be genuine.
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The explosion is clearly manufactured after-the-fact. It isn't sync.
 
If a signal is clipped early in the signal chain I wouldn't expect to see the classic "flat-topped" waveform at the ultimate output. It takes relatively little phase shift (as from the DC blocking networks between amplifier stages) to render this shape visually unrecognizable- a fact I have learned the hard way as a result of occasionally leaving the HPF switched in on the Neutrik audio analyzer I commonly use in the shop at work. Throw in a low-pass characteristic and you can really hash up the waveform while leaving the distortion components quite audible.

Apart from the unknown phase and amplitude vs. frequency characteristics of the camera's audio signal path, anything found on YouTube will have been through multiple encoding/conversion steps (likely including resampling at a lower sample rate to accomodate YouTube's lousy audio bandwidth- which requires low-pass filtering to avoid aliasing) as well as some sort of perceptual encoding to reduce the data rate to suit streaming applications.

Under those circumstances, while the spectrum may be pretty well preserved, I don't expect the original waveforms to be maintained with any integrity.

Fortunately the human ear-brain system is fairly insensitive to phase distortions that would make unintelligible hash of an oscilloscope display, and the basic argument stands- that if the cops' voices were being fuzzed during the recording, an explosion of even greater amplitude should also be fuzzed, which is not the case in this video.

I still have the audio saved on the DAW at one workplace- I'll give it some more scrutiny on Monday and see if I can find anything interesting.
 
Fitzgibbon, do you still have the version that has the explosion in stereo? That would be pretty conclusive evidence of alteration.

I've been looking at the wave a little more closely in Audition (which actually has a fairly nice spectrum analyzer), and I now believe that the section with the explosion does indeed have a slightly wider frequency range, both low and high. What I was looking for was any evidence that it was recorded with a different mic, and there may be some. But it's hard to be sure since it's a very different sound from the talking, and it doesn't help that the versions I've found so far have the audio converted to 22.05 kHz samples, which limits the high frequency to 11 kHz, but I'd be interested in what you guys see in that spectrum.
 
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WilliamSeger said:
Fitzgibbon, do you still have the version that has the explosion in stereo? That would be pretty conclusive evidence of alteration.
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No, I didn't bother saving it and IIRC, it was re-upped in mono within a few days of being outed. So t'is only my word on the matter FWIW

WilliamSeger said:
I've been looking at the wave a little more closely in Audition (which actually has a fairly nice spectrum analyzer), and I now believe that the section with the explosion does indeed have a slightly wider frequency range, both low and high. What I was looking for was any evidence that it was recorded with a different mic, and there may be some. But it's hard to be sure since it's a very different sound from the talking, and it doesn't help that the versions I've found so far have the audio converted to 22.05 kHz samples, which limits the high frequency to 11 kHz, but I'd be interested in what you guys see in that spectrum.
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That's the thing. Listen to the flattened quality to the sync audio which is hardly going to be a challenging sound environment and then consider how wide a spectrum of sound comes from the 'explosion', something that should be sonically more challenging. It just has too much presence to be believable.
 
Yeah, I know what you mean, and I did have that same impression when I first heard it. I'm just hoping to find something quantitative. Since you confirm there was a version with a stereo soundtrack, I think I'll go back to looking for it -- maybe someone saved a copy and has since uploaded it.
 
BigAl said:
The clip was probably shot by one Lucia Davis. She's in IMBD and credited as being included in these TV shows. I'd love to see them.

1. 7 Days in September (2002) (field crew: Broadcast News Networks 9/11)
1. "MSNBC Investigates" .... Herself (1 episode, 2001)
- 24 Hours at Ground Zero (2001) TV episode .... Herself

She's in IMBD and someone with a paid IMDB account can send her a message she might read.

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Heh....

Someone left a message for her there, asking if she was aware that twoofs were using her footage.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
Also, who is taking the video?

Why do these guys have 1/2 face respirators on? Where did they get them? Is that standard gear?
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It would be a logical bit of equipment to have in an emergency medical kit for dealing with persons who may have a contagious disease or in police gear for investigating a very dusty dirty crime scene.
 
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