British Postmen and democracy.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Jon_in_london said:


None of this proves they are anti-democratic. Distastefull? yes, but not anti-democracy.
Democracy = equal representation for all, not equal representation for people of "British or kindred European ethnic origin" only; that thing about 'power is derived from the people', not 'power is derived from those white people we judge fit enough"?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

BillyTK said:

Democracy = equal representation for all, not equal representation for people of "British or kindred European ethnic origin" only; that thing about 'power is derived from the people', not 'power is derived from those white people we judge fit enough"?

Well any party in power can alter the rules, there is actually nothing to stop that apart from the conscience of its own members and the opposition.
 
Reginald said:
BillyTK. You are right to point out what a load of low life scum they are. You will see no disagreement from me on that one.

But as unpleasant as they are, we have to let the process work itself through.

We cant talk of not trusting them with democracy if people are going to take it upon themselves to interfere with that process in protest.
Like I said, I'm ambivalent about the posties; it's a very hazy line, especially as the BNP are careful to present there message in such a way that they don't cross over it. On the other hand, this action makes the BNP out to victims and gives them a degree of credibility they really don't deserve, and that's bad.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Reginald said:


Well any party in power can alter the rules, there is actually nothing to stop that apart from the conscience of its own members and the opposition.
These principles are supposed to be enshrined in our "living constitution", although I'd really hate to see that put to the test.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

BillyTK said:

Are you taking the mess or something?

I honestly don't know.

How fluppin' democratic do you think the Klu Klux Klan (for example) is?

Very democratic considering that the KKK was the historic home of the Southern Democrats. The KKK didn't abolish democracy when it held significant power. In fact, the KKK is more democratic than anything we have now in that they believed in "majority rules".
 
Tony said:


I honestly don't know.



Very democratic considering that the KKK was the historic home of the Southern Democrats. The KKK didn't abolish democracy when it held significant power. In fact, the KKK is more democratic than anything we have now in that they believed in "majority rules".

While I find Billy's post a little strange, this one is just silly.

White people were not a majority in the South, which is why they used violence and state power in order to keep the majority from voting.

The KKK did everything in its power to abolish democracy.
 
Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Should any organisation which would subvert those very democratic freedoms it claims as protection (as the BNP surely would) be entitled to engage in the democratic process?

Whether it should or not, it isn't the postman's job to determine it.

Geez, why not let postmen read all of one's mail and then determine which part of it the adressee should really get, and which one should be thrown away for his own good?

On the one hand, it's legal literature but on the other, legal doesn't mean legitimate, and following orders is no excuse.

Gimme a break about "following orders is no excuse". They're not asked to deliver a letter bomb (which, of course, they should and would legitimately refuse to do.) They're just asked to deliver mail they disagree with.

Why stop here? Suppose a deeply religious mailman decides to destroy "heathen" literature someone along his route is getting...
 
Tony said:


They weren't? Can you support that?

No, I can't. In fact, I'm probably wrong.

Do you think that this demolishes the remainder of my argument, or is the remainder just not worth replying to at all?

MattJ
 
aerocontrols said:

Do you think that this demolishes the remainder of my argument, or is the remainder just not worth replying to at all?

Absolutely not. In fact the reason I didn't address your other point (about the KKK doing everything in their power to abolish democracy) was because I remembered learning about how the KKK intimidated blacks from voting. That may not be "everything in their power", but it gives credence to the notion that they did try to abolish democracy (at least for blacks and white "◊◊◊◊◊◊ lovers").
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

BillyTK said:

Democracy = equal representation for all, not equal representation for people of "British or kindred European ethnic origin" only; that thing about 'power is derived from the people', not 'power is derived from those white people we judge fit enough"?

Well, equal representation for all also includes equal representation for those that favor denying equal representation to those that they don't like.

What we think of as "Democracy" does include more than just equal representation of all citizens, it also includes safe-guards to make sure that whatever civil rights guaranteed under the democracy are not voted away by its citizenry.

Democracy is not something that can be put in place and then just forgotten. It does require that the citizenry not become complacent and that they take an active part in keeping their democracy.
 
Reginald said:
BillyTK. You are right to point out what a load of low life scum they are. You will see no disagreement from me on that one.

But as unpleasant as they are, we have to let the process work itself through.

We cant talk of not trusting them with democracy if people are going to take it upon themselves to interfere with that process in protest.
I don't think the moment has come when we cannot trust the people with democracy. Or maybe I should say that the moment we don't, it's not a democracy anymore.

As Skeptic says:

Why stop here? Suppose a deeply religious mailman decides to destroy "heathen" literature someone along his route is getting...
Democracy is letting your opponents speak. It wouldn't even be necessary if everyone thought the same as I.

Get the mail out.
 
The "conscience clause" has always applied within the postal service and this smacks of an attempt by Griffin and his thugs to get extra publicity (it certainly worked on C4 news last night). The Royal Mail will still deliver the odious leaflets - it just won't force individual workers who object to deliver them.

Where's the problem?

They will also be delivering NuLab and Tory literature. Both parties are craven to the hegemony of a giant corporate-state superpower responsible for triggering wars and enforcing murderous economic and environmental policies worldwide. They are in no small way complicit with the plight of millions of sweatshop workers, millions of Africans, Latin Americans and Asians suffering severe malnutrition as a result of the NWO's globalist agenda.
Unlike the BNP, they will not just get a few councillors, but represent the British people internationally. They will represent our sole constitutional defence against predatory multinationals.

Why do people/media focus so narrowly on the overt language of this bunch of impotent nazis instead of concentrating on the powers that really do control the doctrinal system.
 
demon said:
The "conscience clause" has always applied within the postal service and this smacks of an attempt by Griffin and his thugs to get extra publicity (it certainly worked on C4 news last night). The Royal Mail will still deliver the odious leaflets - it just won't force individual workers who object to deliver them.

Where's the problem?

They will also be delivering NuLab and Tory literature. Both parties are craven to the hegemony of a giant corporate-state superpower responsible for triggering wars and enforcing murderous economic and environmental policies worldwide. They are in no small way complicit with the plight of millions of sweatshop workers, millions of Africans, Latin Americans and Asians suffering severe malnutrition as a result of the NWO's globalist agenda.
Unlike the BNP, they will not just get a few councillors, but represent the British people internationally. They will represent our sole constitutional defence against predatory multinationals.

Why do people/media focus so narrowly on the overt language of this bunch of impotent nazis instead of concentrating on the powers that really do control the doctrinal system.


Well the subject of this thread is British postmen and delivering BNP leaflets, soooo If you want to go on about global politics thats up to you, however I don't intend to qualify every comment I make here with statements such as "But let us not forget while we have this trivial conversation that the other parties are..... Both parties are craven to the hegemony of a giant corporate-state superpower responsible for triggering wars and enforcing murderous economic and environmental policies worldwide. They are in no small way complicit with the plight of millions of sweatshop workers, millions of Africans, Latin Americans and Asians suffering severe malnutrition as a result of the NWO's globalist agenda." etc.

Sorry.Edited because I didn't actually add any text to the quote...my bad
 
Democracy means sometimes you have to put up with things you don't like.

Campaign against the BNP. Challenge them in the press. Argue your case wherever you can.


The BNP will be defeated because people will see them for the idiots that they are. What these postmen are doing is wrong. It is not up to them to decide how our democracy works. Our representatives in the big building on the Thames have been entrusted with that authority.
 
Reginald, I didn`t consider your "conversation" to be trivial, just the opposite infact, hence my post.
I was not attempting to hijack anything, but just trying to point out that the big fuss over this detracts from the other propaganda that we get delivered through our doors on a much more regular basis, and which we seem to accept without compunction although in reality it is much more significant and powerful.

Apologies and back to your topic.
 
demon said:

Apologies and back to your topic.

Accepted. :)

The trouble with the whole thing is that if they had just delivered the leaflets, no one would have been any the wiser. You are correct that the BNP have seized the opportunity for media attention, but they could only seize that which was offered out to them by the Postal workers.

After the "summer of discontent" I am somewhat wary of unions making points. It invariably ends in tears.
 
We didn't get the leaflets here (I see little dislodging the Liberal local council or the Conservative MP around here), but if they want to deliver it, they may do so.

I do ask that they put an address on it. Or a phone number. Or some other contact details. I have no intention of doing them bodily harm (though the lack of address on last year's leaflet was the only thing stopped my brother going and putting a brick through their windows), but either they stand by their beliefs or they don't.

Truth be told, it doesn't matter a jot or a tittle what language they use in most of the areas in which they do well. It's mostly rural areas, and they didn't do badly (votewise) in Blaby constituency (about two miles from here) last year. But largely the sort of people who vote for them are not going to be put off by blatant racism. I meet people who want to get rid of the darkies all the time, and many of them have no shame about it. The only reason for couching it in 'nicer' language is so that they can't be declared illegal. They know their audience, and they know how to appeal to them.

I do sometimes wonder how much of what they put out they genuinely believe, and how much is just a bid for power. Some of the representatives I see don't have any of the obvious hallmarks of stupidity (though some do), and I find it hard to credit(!) them with those beliefs.

Anyway, bring it on. They'll not get much of an audience in Leicester, the city with the largest proportion of non-whites (for want of a better term) in Britain. Yes, that gets some people around here annoyed, but not most. Then again, Tower Hamlets had more non-whites than here....

Cheers,
Rat.
 

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