British Postmen and democracy.

[Reginald]

I sat, jaw down watching the channel 4 news story last night. The BBC have this article about our fine postmen here...

Post staff reject BNP pamphlets

What the bloody hell is going on with these people?

No matter how odious the views of a political party in the UK it is not the right of postmen to refuse to deliver LEGAL party political literature.

Who will they decide to censor next? The Tories for putting forward pamphlets outlining changes of policy toward the post office? Not delivering Labour party literature because they "Don't like that bloke Blair"?

I'm so annoyed at this, we have to tolerate the extremes of democracy or we may as well not have it at all.

The direction this could go fills me with an inner dread tbh.

 

[Tony]

I guess that's the pitfall of nurturing a culture that accepts intrusions into personal liberty for the good of "society".

 

[BillyTK]

I sat, jaw down watching the channel 4 news story last night. The BBC have this article about our fine postmen here...

Post staff reject BNP pamphlets

What the bloody hell is going on with these people?

No matter how odious the views of a political party in the UK it is not the right of postmen to refuse to deliver LEGAL party political literature.

Who will they decide to censor next? The Tories for putting forward pamphlets outlining changes of policy toward the post office? Not delivering Labour party literature because they "Don't like that bloke Blair"?

I'm so annoyed at this, we have to tolerate the extremes of democracy or we may as well not have it at all.

The direction this could go fills me with an inner dread tbh.

Should any organisation which would subvert those very democratic freedoms it claims as protection (as the BNP surely would) be entitled to engage in the democratic process? Which is more dangerous - to stamp down on them or to allow them the precious oxygen of publicity (© Margaret Thatcher 1988)? To be honest, I don't know and I'm equally ambivalent about these postal workers. On the one hand, it's legal literature but on the other, legal doesn't mean legitimate, and following orders is no excuse.

Great thread title by the way!

Edited for spellin

 

[Jon_in_london]

Someone needs to draw a line in the sand with respect to the BNP. Either it is legal or it is not.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Should any organisation which would subvert those very democratic freedoms it claims as protection (as the BNP surely would) be entitled to engage in the democratic process?

I don't know much about the BNP, but I do know they are a white nationalist/supremacist party. How would they subvert those "democratic freedoms"? And aren't the Postmen doing the same thing right now (subverting "democratic freedoms" it claims to protect)?

 

[Jon_in_london]

Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Should any organisation which would subvert those very democratic freedoms it claims as protection (as the BNP surely would) be entitled to engage in the democratic process?

Please enlighten us as to how the BNP "would subvert those very democratic freedoms it claims as protection"

 

[wollery]

Well the Liverpool postal service delivered the pamphlets. I read the one that came through my letterbox, and there was nothing overtly racist in it. That's not to say that the BNP aren't racist, they are, they've just realised that if they want to get anywhere then they have to couch their policies in non-racist terms.

It did of course make several references to "ordinary British people" (white people) and "traditional British culture" (Morris Dancing perhaps?).

As for the legality, you can't ban a political party because you don't like their policies. That way lies the fall of democracy.

btw, did anyone else see that documentary last year about the BNP candidate, where they secretly filmed him making overtly racist comments on several occasions? I think they should show that again in the run up to the election.

 

[BillyTK]

Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

I don't know much about the BNP, but I do know they are a white nationalist/supremacist party. How would they subvert those "democratic freedoms"?

Your first sentence answers your question.

And aren't the Postmen doing the same thing right now (subverting "democratic freedoms" it claims to protect)?

Like I said, I'm ambivalent.

 

[Jon_in_london]

It did of course make several references to "ordinary British people" (white people) and "traditional British culture" (Morris Dancing perhaps?).


btw, did anyone else see that documentary last year about the BNP candidate, where they secretly filmed him making overtly racist comments on several occasions? I think they should show that again in the run up to the election.

If you cant identify any examples of "traditional British culture" other than Morris Dancing then I really despair of some of my fellow countrymen.

I saw that doccie. That guy was un-beee-leee-vable! What a prat!

 

[Jon_in_london]

Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Your first sentence answers your question.

No it doesnt. Provided the majority vote for them there is nothing undemocratic about it at all.

 

[Reginald]

The leaflets they have been asked to distribute have been passed as legal. In that they do not go against any current race laws in the UK. (I cant link that, it was on the news item last night). They may be distasteful, but that's a different thing altogether.

Despite the extreme nature of the BNP, they are not an outlawed political party, they are not a terrorist organisation in the same way that the IRA are. They hold council seats, I am ashamed to say that they hold a council seat where I am. BUT they are entitled to do so, in the same way that a socialist workers party candidate could if he/she were elected.

When the BNP steps over the fine line that they tread with regard to the law and race in this country, they will (I have every confidence) be punished by the same laws that allow for them to exist in the first place.

This is (IMO) a political ploy by the union of the PO workers, they would be well advised (again in my opinion) to take their views out onto the street in one of the many marches against the BNP. That's the way we do it here, everyone has the right to protest, but that protest must be legal.

To show political intolerance is just as bad as showing racial intolerance, there is no place for either in the UK.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Your first sentence answers your question.

How? There is nothing fundamentally undemocratic with being white nationalist.

 

[wollery]

If you cant identify any examples of "traditional British culture" other than Morris Dancing then I really despair of some of my fellow countrymen.

I was joking (must remember to use smilies )!

My point is really - what do they think of as traditional British culture?

 

[Reginald]

I was joking (must remember to use smilies )!

My point is really - what do they think of as traditional British culture?

White suits?

Playing Polo?

Cucumber sarnies with the crusts off?

Listen to the Home service on a crystal set?

You know all those things millions of ordinary people in the UK do every day when they get home from work.

 

[BillyTK]

Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Please enlighten us as to how the BNP "would subvert those very democratic freedoms it claims as protection"

Well gee, Jon, I don't know; do you think a party which restricts membership to only those of "British or kindred European ethnic origin", which believes in a "mono-racial country" (wtf?) and whose leader is a Holocaust denier could be trusted with our democracy?

 

[BillyTK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

How? There is nothing fundamentally undemocratic with being white nationalist.

Are you taking the mess or something? How fluppin' democratic do you think the Klu Klux Klan (for example) is?

 

[Jon_in_london]

Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Well gee, Jon, I don't know; do you think a party which restricts membership to only those of "British or kindred European ethnic origin", which believes in a "mono-racial country" (wtf?) and whose leader is a Holocaust denier could be trusted with our democracy?

None of this proves they are anti-democratic. Distastefull? yes, but not anti-democracy.

 

[BillyTK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

No it doesnt. Provided the majority vote for them there is nothing undemocratic about it at all.

Utter nonsense; there's more to this democracy thing than "majority rule".

 

[Reginald]

BillyTK. You are right to point out what a load of low life scum they are. You will see no disagreement from me on that one.

But as unpleasant as they are, we have to let the process work itself through.

We cant talk of not trusting them with democracy if people are going to take it upon themselves to interfere with that process in protest.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Postmen and democracy.

Utter nonsense; there's more to this democracy thing than "majority rule".

Au contraire, a party with an absolute majority can do pretty much as it pleases (Ref. New Labour).