psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Are you trying to say that when you buy bitcoin you don't "end up with something"?
The more ignorant might try and say that you only get a "number" but that is a ridiculous assertion.
Merged Bitcoin - Part 3
- Thread starter Dr.Sid
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bitcoin cryptocurrency
The more ignorant might try and say that you only get a "number" but that is a ridiculous assertion.
wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
Are you trying to imply without actually saying that when you buy bitcoin you do "end up with something"?
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
No, I am actually saying that.
wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
Then say it. What do you end up with?
jeremyp
Philosopher
Inability to argue without insulting your opponents noted.
What do you get if you buy BTC?
The_Animus
Illuminator
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
- Messages
- 3,592
More or less the same thing as if I buy Euros. I can keep Euros as a store of value, though the value may change over time. I can spend Euros directly where they are accepted and where they are not I can convert Euros to another form of value that is accepted.
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Messages
- 54,545
Kind of like buying gold in everquest.
wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
"More or less" the same thing, eh. In the same vein as a mayfly and the sun have "more or less" the same lifespan, right?
In fairness, I know an actual person who bought a bitcoin then sold that bitcoin, and purchased a car with the difference between buy and sell price. At that point my conversation became meaningless to him, but it is also true that the story is uncommon. Stock brokers will tell you that clients have the greatest difficulty selling, either for a profit or a loss. That is why the vast majority of bitcoin owners are round trippers.
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
Similarly, I know someone who made "a metric fuckton" of money from bitcoin speculation.
While I'm happy for him, I suspect that the people who bought his bitcoins didn't do so well.
Such is life.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
I know from experience that dishonest posters like you will simply pretend that I never answered the question no matter what I post.
But for the benefit of others, I will answer the question yet again. You get intellectual property. The difference is that instead of a human authority recognizing your right to this property, it is guaranteed by an algorithm and as long as nobody gets access to your wallet or private key, nobody can take the property away from you.
wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
Without a human authority recognizing your right, whether to bitcoin or anything else, you don't have that right. And rights to "intellectual property" are even more dependent on human authority than ownership of an actual thing that exists. Also, as long as nobody gets access to your physical safe or wallet, nobody can take your cash away from you either, so that's not all that impressive.
Suddenly
No Punting
You literally are ultimately getting a series of numbers. Maybe more an interest in a part of a series of numbers. However it is framed, all code comes down to numbers.
But you misstate the point. You were comparing it to commodities. Which if I buy corn futures and don't sell them I'm getting corn, no?
jrhowell
Muse
My understanding is that a sufficient number of bitcoin nodes working together would be able to hijack the blockchain. I can picture a scenario with interest and value of bitcoin falling that some major consortia of bitcoin miners might coordinate to hack it and steal what the could before their efforts were discovered. That would likely result in the total demise of bitcoin.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Then your understanding is incorrect. If an entity gains 51% control of the mining process then they can control which transactions get onto the blockchain and may even be able to create a new blockchain fork but they can't create new transactions from an individual wallet without their private key.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
You are trying to mangle the definition of "right". Nobody has the ability to access the property in a wallet except the holder of the private key.
Intellectual property does not mean "non-existent" property.
That's a different argument to the one where you are claiming that bitcoin "doesn't exist". It may not be "all that impressive" but it is impressive enough that people are willing to pay for it.
jrhowell
Muse
Good to know, but there are still plenty of problems with that. Someone who can control what gets on the blockchain can remove a transaction that transfers bitcoins to you. If the blockchain forks the same bitcoins could be sold to multiple people.
The value of bitcoin is tied to people's faith in the integrity of the blockchain. If that faith is lost, even if the blockchain in not truly compromised, then bitcoin ownership become far more risky. Do you still really own those bitcoins if no one believes what the blockchain tells them?
Last edited:
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
It doesn't work that way. At most one or two blocks at the top of the chain can be removed. Beyond that no transaction can be removed. In the event of a fork, the longest chain wins and the transactions from the fork that didn't make it are as if they never occurred.
Of course there have been forks such as "bitcoin cash" that exist simultaneously but they are a different type of coin. The solution to the "double spend" problem has never been cracked.
wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
Nonsense. Without a human authority to recognize the numbers in that wallet as anything at all, then they're nothing. And nobody has access to the property in your safe except the holder of the key, either.
As you're applying it to an intangible thing that only has value because other suckers think it has value, it's helpful to contrast it with things that actually exist in the world as physical things.
Ah, I thought it was clear that the "it" that wasn't impressive is your claim of security, not the con game that is crypto. I know people are willing to pay for crypto. I pointed that out in the "bunch of rich suckers will forget all the crypto problems and start buying them again" phrase that got your knickers in a twist, remember?