psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
The inelasticity of supply (or demand) is just one of the factors involved in the laws of supply and demand. But if you want to go with your own pet set of rules then hey, go ahead.
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It's your rules and your classical illustration of them. So we might as well have your response to dissent too.
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
It is hardly surprising that you would agree with anybody who disagrees with me - no matter how illogical their position might be.
In this case, it means that you are agreeing that the number of bitcoin miners (and hence the mining difficulty) has got nothing to do with the price of bitcoin.
No.
and
No.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Your irrelevant non-sequitur doesn't change the fact that all you are arguing about is the dictionary definition of "classic".
Rubbish. It was you who used the word. I am therefore arguing with you and not with any dictionary.
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
Aaah. The dreaded "DEATH CROSS" is nearly upon bitcoin.
.
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
Some figures and statistics - classic or not. 
Well, it fell to 7370 but is now 200 above your 'sell' price. Does that count as a win or a loss for you? Or is the jury still out?
Fell to 7240.
Yes, a win, a 10% drop would be like dow falling 2500. I think we could make money there too!
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Only if you did a buy back 4 hours ago. Otherwise it now counts as a loss (unless the price turns down again).
But if you'd predicted a 'buy' it would also be showing a profit right now. This is precisely why your open-ended predictions are worthless.
I wasted a year of my life with a spreadsheet tracking Samson's "predictions" - be less Don would be my recommendation
I wasted a year of my life with a spreadsheet tracking Samson's "predictions" - be less Don would be my recommendation
Most of those bets will still be 'open'. How are they looking?
6 months and I won hands down. 35% annualised to 70.I wasted a year of my life with a spreadsheet tracking Samson's "predictions" - be less Don would be my recommendation
Ron_Tomkins
Satan's Helper
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2007
- Messages
- 44,024
There's a guy who's currently helping me shoot my webseries, and who has provided his home studio to shoot the show. When I first entered his apartment, I saw that on one side he had a bunch of computers hanging like coats, with a bunch of fans on top providing ventilation 24/7. When I asked him what that was, he said he was mining for bitcoins.
He tried to explain the concept of how it works, but I literally felt like a complete idiot who was trying to understand the concept of String Theory.
Personally, I find it fascinating, but I do wonder how the hell it works. This is the most of what I understood:
* You "mine" coins (which is a process that looks similar to constantly downloading something on the internet)
* The more you "mine", the more currency you have
.....
That's it. That's all I understood. I'm still not 100% clear on how that money can be used. I remember asking him about that, and he seemed to imply that while you could just "cash in" the bitcoin you mined, that it was better to simply keep mining more. But still.... unless this money can be used at some point in life, I don't see the point.
I have a very rudimentary knowledge of economics, but my basic take is that any form of wealth production, whether it's mining for bitcoins, or working the stock market, or just flat out, working at a job and making money.... whatever means of wealth production you have, you basically wanna have a system where you're simultaneously doing two things: 1) Using some of that money constantly to pay your bills, buy food, etc..... and 2) Saving some of that money in some Savings Vault/Account, where you have something to draw from in the future. Number 1 is more important (because, what's the point of saving money you're never gonna use?) but ideally, you should be able to do both, because there's also an importance in building savings resources.
Can bitcoin do that? And if so, can anyone explain to me, in as simplest way as possible, with the least amount of economy jargon, and if possible, using real-life practical examples (so as to not get too abstract), how that would be possible?
(Also, are there any risks when deciding to try mining for bitcoin? Any possible "loses" one could suffer? Or is it a safe try just for the hell of it?)
He tried to explain the concept of how it works, but I literally felt like a complete idiot who was trying to understand the concept of String Theory.
Personally, I find it fascinating, but I do wonder how the hell it works. This is the most of what I understood:
* You "mine" coins (which is a process that looks similar to constantly downloading something on the internet)
* The more you "mine", the more currency you have
.....
That's it. That's all I understood. I'm still not 100% clear on how that money can be used. I remember asking him about that, and he seemed to imply that while you could just "cash in" the bitcoin you mined, that it was better to simply keep mining more. But still.... unless this money can be used at some point in life, I don't see the point.
I have a very rudimentary knowledge of economics, but my basic take is that any form of wealth production, whether it's mining for bitcoins, or working the stock market, or just flat out, working at a job and making money.... whatever means of wealth production you have, you basically wanna have a system where you're simultaneously doing two things: 1) Using some of that money constantly to pay your bills, buy food, etc..... and 2) Saving some of that money in some Savings Vault/Account, where you have something to draw from in the future. Number 1 is more important (because, what's the point of saving money you're never gonna use?) but ideally, you should be able to do both, because there's also an importance in building savings resources.
Can bitcoin do that? And if so, can anyone explain to me, in as simplest way as possible, with the least amount of economy jargon, and if possible, using real-life practical examples (so as to not get too abstract), how that would be possible?
(Also, are there any risks when deciding to try mining for bitcoin? Any possible "loses" one could suffer? Or is it a safe try just for the hell of it?)
Last edited:
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
@Ron Tomkins
My post #908 on 29 November 2017. I have modified it a bit.
The concept is unsustainable and wasteful.
I buy 10 Bitcoins. Transaction #1.
I buy an item with 5 Bitcoins. Transaction #2.
Joe buys 20 bitcoins. Transaction #3.
When there are 2020 transactions there are enough for one ledger block of 1MB.
The header of the previous verified block is added to this block (hence the term block-chain).
This new block is distributed to Bitcoin miners who then compete to find a number (a nonce) which will produce a hashtag which has a target of 32 (or more) leading zeros. This is a complex computer algorithm that just takes time to solve.
This requires such enormous computing power that it takes about 10 minutes to succeed. The first success gets a small number of Bitcoins, and the block is added to the public ledger which is on many computers.
All miners then start on the next block.
With every 210,000 blocks the reward is halved. 50 bitcoins up to 210,000, 25 bitcoins up to 420,000 and 12.5 bitcoins up to 630,000. There are currently 496,493 bitcoins. Only 21 million will be produced. Various sites charge a fee of 0 to 2 % per transaction.
The target will be increased in difficulty so that the rate of 1 block every 10 minutes is maintained.
First bitcoin transaction was 10,000 for 2 pizzas.
Values:
May 2010 = $0.01;
Feb 2011 = $1;
Jul 2012 = $31;
Dec 2012 = $2;
Apr 2013 = $266;
2013 and 2014 range = $100 to $1,242;
May 2017 = $2,000;
Nov 2017 = $9,746.
Number of crypto-currencies is 1,324 and growing.
Electricity usage for mining Bitcoin is 29 TeraWattHrs per year.
Ireland used 25 TWhrs pa.
Electrical usage per transaction is 285 kWhrs.
$80 per transaction and increasing rapidly.
Visa credit card 82 billion transactions per year.
Bitcoin is only 11 million.
It will burst. Any takers on predicting when?
(Note 1 - It burst on 17 December 2017 after nearly reaching $20,000 per coin.)
(Note 2 - Does it still take 2020 transactions per block ie 2020 transactions per minutes?)
My post #908 on 29 November 2017. I have modified it a bit.
The concept is unsustainable and wasteful.
I buy 10 Bitcoins. Transaction #1.
I buy an item with 5 Bitcoins. Transaction #2.
Joe buys 20 bitcoins. Transaction #3.
When there are 2020 transactions there are enough for one ledger block of 1MB.
The header of the previous verified block is added to this block (hence the term block-chain).
This new block is distributed to Bitcoin miners who then compete to find a number (a nonce) which will produce a hashtag which has a target of 32 (or more) leading zeros. This is a complex computer algorithm that just takes time to solve.
This requires such enormous computing power that it takes about 10 minutes to succeed. The first success gets a small number of Bitcoins, and the block is added to the public ledger which is on many computers.
All miners then start on the next block.
With every 210,000 blocks the reward is halved. 50 bitcoins up to 210,000, 25 bitcoins up to 420,000 and 12.5 bitcoins up to 630,000. There are currently 496,493 bitcoins. Only 21 million will be produced. Various sites charge a fee of 0 to 2 % per transaction.
The target will be increased in difficulty so that the rate of 1 block every 10 minutes is maintained.
First bitcoin transaction was 10,000 for 2 pizzas.
Values:
May 2010 = $0.01;
Feb 2011 = $1;
Jul 2012 = $31;
Dec 2012 = $2;
Apr 2013 = $266;
2013 and 2014 range = $100 to $1,242;
May 2017 = $2,000;
Nov 2017 = $9,746.
Number of crypto-currencies is 1,324 and growing.
Electricity usage for mining Bitcoin is 29 TeraWattHrs per year.
Ireland used 25 TWhrs pa.
Electrical usage per transaction is 285 kWhrs.
$80 per transaction and increasing rapidly.
Visa credit card 82 billion transactions per year.
Bitcoin is only 11 million.
It will burst. Any takers on predicting when?
(Note 1 - It burst on 17 December 2017 after nearly reaching $20,000 per coin.)
(Note 2 - Does it still take 2020 transactions per block ie 2020 transactions per minutes?)
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Mining for bitcoin is akin to digging for gold (that is why it is called "mining"). It takes a lot of work (electricity) and only occasionally you make a strike. Some of it you will exchange for cash (assuming you have no other source of income) so you can pay for food etc and some you will hold in the hopes that it becomes more valuable in the future.
The main differences is that one is heavy and shiny and the other only exists in a network of computers.
The cost of the heavy duty computer equipment and the electricity used to run it may well exceed the money you could make from mining.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
You were doing well until that point. Then you went from relating facts to divining the future.
Delphic Oracle
Philosopher
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2016
- Messages
- 6,416
When stripped of their emotionally derived/perceived "value", one of them still provides a number of practical physical functions like conducting electricity (or at least coating other conductors to prevent oxidation) among others.
This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be
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