Birthright Citizenship

[paulhutch]

No, you still don't get it. The Constitution doesn't define who is a citizen -- that's in US code -- it defines what a citizen can do to participate in government: vote and run for office. I have no idea what you think it means, but it's quite clear: only citizens can do those things. Almost all other rights guaranteed by the Constitution or implied by law are protected for everyone within our borders.

Prior to 1996 there was no federal law preventing non-citizens from voting in federal elections. However most states had banned non-citizen voting by the middle of the 19th century and all had done so by 1926 so that law was basically just to make sure they could not vote if a state decided to change its law. Currently non-citizens can vote in some local elections.
Ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States

 

[WilliamSeger]

As I've repeatedly pointed out, the constitution does not require that voters be citizens. That's why non-citizens have often been permitted to vote in US elections. And this is still irrelevant, as the constitution cannot answer free-floating political questions. It is a legal document, not a truth-seeking argument.


I understand the current issue just fine--it's anti-immigrant red meat thrown out by an ethnonationalist president just before an election.

What I'm pointing out is a) birthright citizenship is a terrible name, since that contrasts with naturalized citizenship, and not with jus sanguinis citizenship, b) that birthright citizenship describes any arrangement where you are a citizen due to the circumstances of your birth, and c) that none of this can be justified from a classically liberal perspective. The advantages of citizenship are enormous, and the principle means by which we distinguish citizens from aliens are a bizarre and arbitrary birth lottery. Your mom **** you out of her womb on this side of the border, congratulations, you're a citizen. She popped a squat 100 feet away? Sorry, Juan, you can **** right off forever.

Well, that is clearer; I thought you were arguing that simply discarding birthright citizenship, as Trump wants to do, was justified. It sounds like you're more in favor of basically doing away with the concept of citizenship altogether and give the same base rights to all residents. That would be great under a one-world government, but one unavoidable circumstance of birth is what government's jurisdiction it happens under. What jus sanguinis means is that the US will use international law to protect whatever rights it protects for all US citizens living abroad, the same as my parents, which seems to me both a moral and pragmatic thing to do. It also means that I'm not an alien if they bring me back to the States, and again that sounds "right" to me -- the circumstances of my birth don't deprive me of any rights. If you're saying that should be the case regardless of my parents' citizenship, that's why we have naturalization; it isn't automatic, but it can be done.

Anyway, I've been digging into this some more, and I concede that you are correct: It is US code, not the Constitution, that requires citizenship to vote. Sorry about that. However, that still means that repealing the 14th Amendment would mean the loss of voting rights, which I consider fundamental because it's the right that protects all the others. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are the rights that seem most important in our daily lives, but they would be meaningless if a government didn't enforce them or just took them away. Voting is what gives us our power over the government to prevent that.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Prior to 1996 there was no federal law preventing non-citizens from voting in federal elections. However most states had banned non-citizen voting by the middle of the 19th century and all had done so by 1926 so that law was basically just to make sure they could not vote if a state decided to change its law. Currently non-citizens can vote in some local elections.
Ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States

Yes, thanks, I had just read that same article and apologized to mumblethrax.