Bioelectromagnetics

To Cleopatra: I have just discovered the 2004 Olympics are in Athens, so I will have to come a long way to buy you lunch! BTW, last time I was there I met the Mayor of Athens who gave me a golden plate, and when I visited the National Museum of Athens the curator recognised me and led me personally to the linear B showcases. This was in recognition of my work on depleted uranium and because I happened to say on a late night TV News show hosted by a man with a very long Greek name that the Elgin Marbles ought to be returned! I couldnt believe that people eat in the middle of the night there, after watching this show which went on til 2 a.m. Anyway, that's hardly relevant to this issue.

No, I am by no means the only scientist trying to uncover this scandal. I would include Dr Cyril Smith from Salford Univ. Dr Gerard Hyland from Warwick, Dr Denis Henshaw from Bristol Univ., Prof Hentry Lai from Washington Univ (Seattle), Prof Ross Adey from UCLA Riverside, and many many others, mostly members of BEMS or EBEA. It's just that you haven't come across the issue much before.

AS for being a genius, wasn't that simply an infinite capacity for taking pains? If so, the pains (and the pain) I am taking on this forum seem to me to be almost infinite!
 
cogreslab said:
To Cleopatra: I have just discovered the 2004 Olympics are in Athens, so I will have to come a long way to buy you lunch! BTW, last time I was there I met the Mayor of Athens who gave me a golden plate, and when I visited the National Museum of Athens the curator recognised me and led me personally to the linear B showcases. This was in recognition of my work on depleted uranium and because I happened to say on a late night TV News show hosted by a man with a very long Greek name that the Elgin Marbles ought to be returned! I couldnt believe that people eat in the middle of the night there, after watching this show which went on til 2 a.m. Anyway, that's hardly relevant to this issue.
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Next time you will find yourself in Athens you will be my guest Mr. Coghill, we go out for dinner when you return from jazz bars, amazing indeed. Interestingly yesterday afternoon as I was browsing the shelves of a bookstore down-town I saw a book that had to do with archaeometry and "Bad Archaeology"( Atlantis and stuff) I thought to send it to you.

No, I am by no means the only scientist trying to uncover this scandal. I would include Dr Cyril Smith from Salford Univ. Dr Gerard Hyland from Warwick, Dr Denis Henshaw from Bristol Univ., Prof Hentry Lai from Washington Univ (Seattle), Prof Ross Adey from UCLA Riverside, and many many others, mostly members of BEMS or EBEA. It's just that you haven't come across the issue much before.
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I will have to check that.Thank you.

BTW you forgot to address the issue of the phone crystal :) You must admit at least that we don't accuse you for anything, I just posted what those people claim. What about bioelectromagnetics and claims of "survival"?
 
Belief in afterlife is often preceded or accompanied by some traumatic initiating event or stressor, despite what Thales said about religion beginning in wonder. It seems many humans need some external source of reference at such times, when their normal life framework has let them down.

There is good evidence that exposure to EMFs is associated with depressive illness, and one possible mechanism is because EMFs seem to depress melatonin synthesis. If therefore someone chronically exposed to relatively high EMFs also suffers a trauma of some kind, I suspect it may induce a need to believe in an afterlife or a religious "conversion" or similar.

Such people are vulnerable, and can be exploited by the unscrupulous. Having said that there are also mediums whose "evidence" provides much comfort to the grieving and is more a vocation than a commercial endeavour. Could I now get back to my main task which is to expose this cover up? And could we discuss this issue of after life on the separate thread?
 
The "new" agent you appear to be working on is Avemar, a Hungarian product, it is a semiproccessed wheat germ extract (fermented?). It contains benzoquinine. Quinine is known to possess anti tumour properties, or rather may be able to reverse the effects of multi drug resistance, a major problem in metastatic cancers. This multi drug resistance is mediated by an ATP- dependant efflux pump, which fits in with your research protocol.

So are you doing this so you can produce a paper and help flog Avenar, which is i understand somewhat more expensive than pharmceuticaly available (tho not as natural and sexy) quinine?
 
We are aware of Avemar of course. And you are right that parabenzoquinone (note the correct spelling) was the active ingredient in that intervention. In fact it is only one of a family of quinones on which we are working.

Of course, the only reason we are doing this research is not to help people with cancer, but so I personally can accumulate enormous piles of money by selling the discovered products at the maximum amount of money and with the greatest possible profit margins. I got the idea from a large pharmaceutical company selling anticancer drugs at astrazenicalonomical prices.

When I have amassed this enormous wealth, from my yacht I will hire a detective to find you, hunt you down and have you exterminated, so that noone can complain at the astonishing avarice of my lifestyle. Meanwhile I am going out to do a bit of gardening.

What do you do for a living, btw?
 
Moulder’s Q and A (Powerlines and cancer)

Q2) What is the difference between the electromagnetic (EM) energy associated with power lines and other forms of electromagnetic energy such as microwaves or x-rays?

Moulder’s definitions are useful and there is nothing factually incorrect in this exposition. As often the case, however, it is not what is stated but what is left unsaid that is more important. He fails to bring out the essential difference between the electric and the magnetic components of the ELF wave. One might infer that any study of magnetic fields (where the utilities concentrate their funding) applies also to the electric component. This however not true for ELF frequencies, since as he says the wavelength at say 60 Hz is 5000,000 metres long. What Moulder misses out is that as a result of its long length all exposees are in the near field of the ELF wave, where there is no fixed relation between the electric and the magnetic components. So any study of ELF magnetic fields can say nothing whatsoever about any electric field biological effects.

To example this for lay readers, if your electric kettle is connected to the mains, there will be no ELF magnetic field unless you switch on the kettle. However all the while it is so connected there is an electric field running the length of the kettle wire. This means that you are exposed to this electric field all the while, whereas you are only exposed to the magnetic field when you fancy a cup of tea or coffee etc., a much shorter length of time. So, by concentrating only on the magnetic component the majority of utility ELF studies fail to research the chronic exposure effects exerted by electric fields in homes. How convenient for the utilities!

As the frequency rises so, as Moulder says, the wave length shortens. This means that by the time the wave is that of a microwave oven (some 12 cm) all exposees are in the far field and the relationship between magnetic and electric is fixed. But with increasing frequency the majority of the energy lies in the electric component (most RF/MW probes use the electric component for this reason). So once again by concentrating on the magnetic component such studies ignore the bulk of the energy deposition. Clever isn’t it?
 
cogreslab said:
We are aware of Avemar of course. And you are right that parabenzoquinone (note the correct spelling) was the active ingredient in that intervention. In fact it is only one of a family of quinones on which we are working.

Of course, the only reason we are doing this research is not to help people with cancer, but so I personally can accumulate enormous piles of money by selling the discovered products at the maximum amount of money and with the greatest possible profit margins. I got the idea from a large pharmaceutical company selling anticancer drugs at astronomical prices..

When I have amassed this enormous wealth, from my yacht I will hire a detective to find you, hunt you down and have you exterminated, so that noone can complain at the astonishing avarice of my lifestyle. Meanwhile I am going out to do a bit of gardening.

What do you do for a living, btw?
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An anti pharmaceutical agenda i detect ?

Perhaps you can explain in more detail what you are doing and your purpose wrt anticancer agents? Its rather difficult to comment with the information you have provided so far. It seems a little removed as well from the "core" interest of "Exploring the effects on life of electricity and magnetism".

Are you planning to add any products with "anti-cancer" activity to your range in the near future?

I am also curious as to where you obtain your blood samples from, presumably some sort of ethical approval or at least patient consent is required?

I am naturally a paid goverment debunker.
 
To PJ: Again, except to say that they are from properly recognised and approved sources I am not prepared to reveal our blood products or other materials suppliers by name, except where it is important for anyone trying to replicate our published work. I am not sure about being part of the anti pharmaceutical lobby: the Welcome Foundation has been an enormous benefit to the RSM (Royal Society of Medicine) and its own library, thereby assisting greatly in our and others' desk research. OK I have come from a school where it is important for survival to be profitable, and the Pharma firms face a great challenge in funding their new research, so I suppose it is tempting for some of them to cut corners or charge over the odds for a patented product of that research. But overall in the past the Pharmas have contributed enormously to human health, albeit within a capitalist framework. We might just at some time become members of ABPI, who have just set up a Cardiff branch.

You seem to know something about ATP synthesis, which involves electron transport. Its perturbation by weak electric fields (which depolarise the inner mitochondrial membrane) may help you see the connection between this line of research and bioelectromagnetics. We have been involved with cancer research for over a decade now, and I see no reason why we should change direction at this stage.
 
Again, except to say that they are from properly recognised and approved sources I am not prepared to reveal our blood products or other materials suppliers by name, except where it is important for anyone trying to replicate our published work
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Fair enough but we both know the blood you test must be fresh (no more than a day old really) or else you will get degeneration of the white cells. This must be from patients who have Leukaemia?, and will almost certainly be derived from an NHS source? I'm very familiar with confedentiality issues. Are you testing on multiple patients or just one patient? I ask this because the particular mutations involved in a particular cancer will have an effect on treatment.

You didn't by any chance attend the BSH annual meeting in Cardiff this year ?




I am not sure about being part of the anti pharmaceutical lobby: the Welcome Foundation has been an enormous benefit to the RSM (Royal Society of Medicine) and its own library, thereby assisting greatly in our and others' desk research. OK I have come from a school where it is important for survival to be profitable, and the Pharma firms face a great challenge in funding their new research, so I suppose it is tempting for some of them to cut corners or charge over the odds for a patented product of that research. But overall in the past the Pharmas have contributed enormously to human health, albeit within a capitalist framework
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:) One of the Tutors at UWIC where i did my MSc had an anecdote about capatalist and communist pharmaceuticals, with capatalist winning by a long way. Anyway I agree!




We might just at some time become members of ABPI, who have just set up a Cardiff branch
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(For the casual reader APBI = Association of British Pharmaceutical Industry, and in ths own words " is the trade association for about a hundred companies in the UK producing prescription medicines. Its member companies research, develop, manufacture and supply more than 90 per cent of the medicines prescribed through the National Health Service (NHS).")

So you produce prescription medicines?




You seem to know something about ATP synthesis, which involves electron transport. Its perturbation by weak electric fields (which depolarise the inner mitochondrial membrane) may help you see the connection between this line of research and bioelectromagnetics. We have been involved with cancer research for over a decade now, and I see no reason why we should change direction at this stage
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Perhaps you can provide some references about the perturbation of electron transfer by weak electromagnetic fields and depolarisation of the inner mitrochondrial membrane by said fields.
 
Yes, and yes, though we also culture the cancer cells and they retain viability for longer that way. (acc trypan blue exclusion). The ABPI has a research associates section, for which we are eligible, since we are unlikely to produce POMs.
 
No I couldnt get along to BHS this year since i was iat the Bioelectrochemistry meeting in Florence, but I would not be surprised if my co-committee member at IoB Rob Lawless was there. Perhaps you know him?
 
Good morning everybody!

I don't wish to derail the thread but this has to do with magnets and I thought not to start a new thread about it.
Today I received the issue No.4/2004 of Skeptic magazine and on page 12 in the News section it talks about Magnetic Insoles.

I bring it to Mr. Coghill's attention because his lab sells those things and maybe he is interested in checking it out if he is not already aware of it.

According to mark H. Winemiller, from the Dept. of Physical Medicine and Rehabiliation at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minesota, and his colleagues Robert G. Bilow, Edward R. Laskowski and W. Scott Harmsen, in an article that appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association ( 2003;290:1474 -1478) entitled " Effect of Magnetic v.Sham Magnetic Insoles on Plantar Heel Pain....
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They conclude that magnetic insoles are a baloney. Of course the insoles cogreslab sells do not promise that they cure pains, they just promise to keep feet warm although as an avid walker and hiker I know what sort of insoles keep feet warm.

These are congreslab's magnetic insoles.

It's amazing what people are ready to believe!!
 
Kalemera! Well here's another chance, it seems, for some interested skeptic to try out one of our products (magnetic insoles) for free! Apart from helping keep your feet warm and unaching despite long term standing, there are other indicators of their effectiveness, such as improved muscle tone. Anyone out there interested in trying them with a controlled scientific experiment?
 
:)

Mr. Coghill are you aware of the article I quoted? I can send you in private the whole piece from Skeptic I didn't do it here in order not to violate the copyright rules but I will be glad to e-mail you the whole stuff.

What I enjoy most in the commercial part of your site is that you make vague promises.It's the joy of the subjective opinion!! Never before science has been presented in a way that appears to serve the tastes of the individual! You must have a very bad opinion for the human gender.

I happen to use thermal insoles and I know how they "work".

How the insoles you sell work?

edited to add: the "never before" is hyberbolic of course.
 
So far as I can tell from the Entrez Pubmed abstract of his study, Winemuller's study concerned plantar fasciitis, whereas the only magnetic insole producers' claims I have seen refer to other types of foot pain disorders*. I note that Weintraub and Cole more recently produced a study confirming the positive effects of PEMF on foot pain, (not the same as static magnets) and that Weintraub had some critical coments on the Winemiller study which were also published in JAMA, but not detailed by Pubmed.
I cannot seem to access the Skeptic Mag. page 12 article from the link provided by Cleopatra.

*E.g.:

Can be used to treat:

Metatarsalgia - A general term for irritation of the metatarsals; aching pain in the metatarsal bones of the foot result from anatomical changes in their alignment.
Fat pad atrophy - Also known by "thinning of the fat pad", this condition is characterized by a decrease in the size, or wasting away of the layer of body fat that is normally present to protect the metatarsal phalangeal heads; can also occur in the heel.
Foot pain (plantar pain)
Pressure redistribution
Diabetic foot - Frequently results from neuropathy, or nerve damage, in the feet which can lead to a dulling or loss of sensation, making one unable to feel pain, heat or cold; Viscoped should be worn only in non-ulcerative
Morton's neuroma - An irritation that is caused by compression of a branch of the plantar nerve between the heads of the metatarsal bones and sometimes occurs when the second toe is larger than the big toe.
Back and joint pain
Hyperkerastosis - Thickening of the outer layer of skin. It may occur as an inherited disorder, affecting the soles of the feet.
Splayfoot - A condition in which the feet are abnormally flattened out.
Forefoot and toe deformities
 
To Cleopatra: If you think our promises are subjective and vague, take a look at the TV ads from the majority of minor ailments commercials!
 
How do magnetic insoles work? Static magnets improve the bioavailablity of molecular oxygen in poorly vascularised areas of the body (Ukhubo et al., 1996, etc) . Is that precise enough for you? I doubt most members of the public would understand that the importance of that, though.
 
To PJ (re electric field depolarisation): I am just wondering if this brand new study* also answers your question about depolarisation of membranes, but I am searching for some other citations more pertinent. You presumably have read the extensive treatment of the subject in Alberts, Bray et al(Molecular biology of the cell), pp ~ 665?

* J Colloid Interface Sci. 2004 Jun 1;274(1):294-308.

Instability of the interface between thin fluid films subjected to electric fields.

Shankar V, Sharma A.
 
I dunno. It seems to be a habit of skeptics that when disproved they do'nt have the honesty to admit this, but just say nothing. I am concluding from Darat's stern reply of silence that he now concedes that my claim was completely correct.
 
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