Bible studies approved

[Boo]

I have not done an exhaustive search so I'm not sure if there are other threads regarding this; the NYTimes and AP are reporting that the Texas state's Board of Education has given final approval to officially offering bible study classes in public high schools. Classes started in 2007 pending final Board approval and now they have it. There are some caveats;the Texas AG has yet to officially rule on this, it has yet to be decided if this will be an elective course and if schools can opt to not offer the course. I'm not sure how well thought out this has been by the BOE.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/us/19brfs-001.html?ref=education


One item of interest from the article:

Mark Chancey, associate professor in religious studies at Southern Methodist University, has studied Bible classes already offered in about 25 districts. His study found most of the courses were explicitly devotional with almost exclusively Christian, usually Protestant, perspectives. It also found that most were taught by teachers who were not familiar with the issue of separation of church and state.

How can someone with a 4 year degree (usual minimum standard for teaching certificate in most states) be unfamiliar with facts taught in HS level Civics classes and a basic tenet of the US Constitution? Is this not covered on the teaching exam? Is this a problem in other states?

The implications are stunning. I have to wonder if school boards will begin recruiting people with degrees in Theology to teach these classes? If an applicant is Greek Orthodox or a member of the Native American Church will they be considered qualified? Is it discrimination to hire only Protestant Christians to teach bible studies?


The questions are rhetorical of course.




Boo

 

[196]

No curriculum guidelines because it "could lead to constitutional problems in the classroom". Wow. This really is taxpayer funded bible study in the guise of education.

 

[Nogbad]

This is religious education pure and simple - Texas votes for Madrassas! Interesting.

 

[Jon_Stripe]

O.k, you're gonna teach Bible studies in our public schools?

Then what about Wicken studies?

or

Islamic studies?

or

Buddhism studies?

Better yet; how 'bout all the major ones.

I'm not being sarcastic.

There are lots more of these people around then you might think.

The world isn't made up of all Christians.........

 

[Texas]

This is religious education pure and simple - Texas votes for Madrassas! Interesting.

Are they compulserary?

 

[JoeEllison]

How can someone with a 4 year degree (usual minimum standard for teaching certificate in most states) be unfamiliar with facts taught in HS level Civics classes and a basic tenet of the US Constitution? Is this not covered on the teaching exam? Is this a problem in other states?

They vote Republican and watch Fox "News", making them twice as ignorant as other Americans with similar education backgrounds?

 

[JoeEllison]

This is religious education pure and simple - Texas votes for Madrassas! Interesting.

Religious schools are only wrong when they aren't Christian... the same way that torture, illegal spying on citizens, and indefinite imprisonment without trial were all wrong when the Soviets did it, but just fine when Bush did the exact same thing. For these folks, "religious freedom" means "government-enforced Christianity."

 

[RandFan]

I have no problem with bible studies as part of a comparative religion class. Just being an elective isn't sufficient for me. Government shouldn't be in the business of furthering any single religion and it is unconstitutional in America.

 

[Jon_Stripe]

"They vote Republican and watch Fox "News", making them twice as ignorant as other Americans with similar education backgrounds?"

--

"Religious schools are only wrong when they aren't Christian... the same way that torture, illegal spying on citizens, and indefinite imprisonment without trial were all wrong when the Soviets did it, but just fine when Bush did the exact same thing. For these folks, "religious freedom" means "government-enforced Christianity.""


HAHAHA!

Nice.

I like you.

 

[Boo]

O.k, you're gonna teach Bible studies in our public schools?

Then what about Wicken studies?

or

Islamic studies?

or

Buddhism studies?

Better yet; how 'bout all the major ones.

I'm not being sarcastic.

There are lots more of these people around then you might think.

The world isn't made up of all Christians.........

Jon,

Here is an insight as to why just bible studies:

One of the board members aligned with social conservative groups known for their strong stands on evolution, sexual abstinence and other heated topics covered in textbooks. One of four board members who voted against current high school biology books because of their failure to list weaknesses in the theory of evolution.

But Dr. McLeroy said his vote on the biology books had nothing to do with censorship or religion and was based on "good science."

"It is wrong to teach opinion as fact," he said.

Regarding his religious beliefs, he said, "I'm a very religious guy, and I've taught Sunday school for several years. It's important to me."

Above is from That Dallas News story that ran when he was appointed. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...DN-sboe_18tex.ART.State.Edition1.3bba4d6.html


I agree that studying the bible as part of a comparative religious studies course is an excellent idea, however that is not what they have in mind.

Also from the Dallas Morning news in a more recent article:

Critics contend that the standards – based on old guidelines for independent studies in English and social studies – are so vague and general that many schools might unknowingly create unconstitutional Bible classes that either promote the religious views of teachers or disparage the religious beliefs of some students.

Earlier this year, the Ector County school board agreed to quit using a Bible course curriculum at two high schools in Odessa that the American Civil Liberties Union said promoted Protestant religious beliefs not shared by Jews, Catholics, Orthodox Christians and many Protestants.

However, state board members supporting the Bible course rule adopted Friday said such lawsuits are rare and should not be a problem for most school districts.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...N-bible_19tex.ART.State.Edition2.4d51734.html


For more information check out the sticky thread Texans Read This http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100408 in Politics.



Boo

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I know there's a few courses out there that even AU thinks are acceptable as electives, but I'm pretty sure the McElroy school board will find cirricula from Liberty U. or Bob Jones U. knowning them.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

A similar class was voted down again in my kids' school district.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/class-board-year-2102066-schulte-course

Trustees who voted against the proposal said a Bible class could be confused as proselytizing and another elective would have to be removed to make room for the Bible class.

"The teachers have said they are not interested and for us to make this top-down decision would be pure folly," said Trustee Bonnie Castrey.

 

[cj.23]

Well if religion is taught in public schools that will doubtless lead to the end of the Christian majority in the USA, based on every other nations experience. Woeful ignorance of religion seems to be synonymous with a highly religious population, so surely the atheists should be celebrating?

I would be deeply disturbed if the courses are taught by someone who has not got a RS or Theology degree, obviously, and do not explore world religions, sociology or religion, etc, etc.

cj x

 

[Beady]

How can someone with a 4 year degree (usual minimum standard for teaching certificate in most states) be unfamiliar with facts taught in HS level Civics classes and a basic tenet of the US Constitution? Is this not covered on the teaching exam? Is this a problem in other states?

Boo, Texas is a bit of a special case. I don't know the exact reasons, nor am I in a position to draw inferences, but I can tell you that Texas recruits a surprising number of teachers from overseas. The ones I am most familiar with are from the Philippines; they possess valid teaching credentials from established Philippine universities, so there's no question that they are academically qualified. The point remains, however, that Texas employs a large number of teachers who cannot necessarily be expected to be familiar with American cultural and/or legal issues.

Again, I have no idea how this might apply to the teaching of religion in Texas public schools, but it's at least a partial answer to your question.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

O.k, you're gonna teach Bible studies in our public schools?

Then what about Wicken studies?

or

Islamic studies?

or

Buddhism studies?

Better yet; how 'bout all the major ones.

I'm not being sarcastic.

There are lots more of these people around then you might think.

The world isn't made up of all Christians.........

Who is going to decide which are "major" religions?

 

[uk_dave]

Who is going to decide which are "major" religions?

The way its always been done in the past. Get some flaming torches and kindling......

 

[196]

Who is going to decide which are "major" religions?

In most jurisdictions course content is set by a curriculum committee of experts. The result is a curriculum document that guides teachers on the topics to be covered. In a legitimate "world religion" course, the experts would give a list of the "major" religions and some examples of things students are expected to learn. As we see in this case, the curriculum process can be subject to political interference. In Texas they just skipped the curriculum document to give the individual instructor carte blanche to teach whatever he or she wants.

 

[Boo]

In most jurisdictions course content is set by a curriculum committee of experts. The result is a curriculum document that guides teachers on the topics to be covered. In a legitimate "world religion" course, the experts would give a list of the "major" religions and some examples of things students are expected to learn. As we see in this case, the curriculum process can be subject to political interference. In Texas they just skipped the curriculum document to give the individual instructor carte blanche to teach whatever he or she wants.

Not just what they want but specifically just what they want from only the bible of the protestant christian faith. This is what puts it in potential violation of the separation of church and state. It's not "major religions" it's a specific document of faith as believed by a specific segment of a specific religion, i.e. protestant christianity.



Boo

 

[gdnp]

Although I suppose it is theoretically possible that such classes could be taught without bias, the probability of that happening is nil. What a can of worms. It belongs in Sunday School, not in public school.

 

[cj.23]

Except Britain, and I think most European states have taught Religion to a very high standard for the last fifty odd years as an academic objective subject???

cj x