Being the victim of an assault while black

[TurkeysGhost]

Yeah, the vibe is what irks me. Like, id a car blows a stop sign while I am in the crosswalk, i might be afraid of injury, or just calmly do what I have to to not get hit and be on my way without a second thought. I'm not a victim of anything in the latter case, and would be a little insulted by someone suggesting I was.

Maybe it is the connotation of a victim being passively violated, whether or not the term 'victim' is technically appropriate.

In this story though, the cops did jump the gun. Rachal didn't need to be bent over within seconds of police arrival. Separated and calmed down, sure, but not straight to restraint.

Not sure what your point is. The clerk was arrested and falsely charged. He's pursuing a civil lawsuit against the city that his rights were violated, aka he was victimized. He himself is claiming he is the victim of mistreatment, there's no reason to speculate about how he views it.

People don't sue the cops when they think everything was fine.

 

[Warp12]

The video is not entirely clear and informative, but if you look at the first video, in which the police are initially called, it seems fairly clear that they are listening to the drunk and his story more than that of the clerk who called them. Some here have suggested that his behavior is inappropriate here, but is it? He called the cops to have a drunken customer ejected, but who are they listening to and what are they doing? If he has to repeat "no, no, get him out of here," maybe it's because they are (quite possibly unaware and not explicitly) discounting his initial report. They appear, at least, to be asking for the drunk's version of events, and ignoring his.

The clerk does not appear to be emotionally composed. If one didn't know any better, one might conclude that he was the belligerent drunk. He seems to be escalating the situation, including loudly mocking the drunk as he first leaves. I wonder the full extent of what took place prior to the Police arriving?

 

[plague311]

The clerk does not appear to be emotionally composed. If one didn't know any better, one might conclude that he was the belligerent drunk. He seems to be escalating the situation, including loudly mocking the drunk as he leaves. I wonder the full extent of what took place prior to the Police arriving?

...and? What does that have to do with anything at all? He might be frustrated from having to deal with a drunk. He might be annoyed because this has happened before and the cops seem dismissive. We don't really know.

Sometimes even trained professionals escalate situations, police for instance. They escalate situations all of the time. No one is saying that the clerk behaved perfectly, or even optimally. Just that he a) shouldn't have been arrested and b) shouldn't have been treated the way he was by the police. He obviously didn't do anything wrong.

The cops screwed up.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The clerk does not appear to be emotionally composed. If one didn't know any better, one might conclude that he was the belligerent drunk. He seems to be escalating the situation, including loudly mocking the drunk as he leaves. I wonder the full extent of what took place prior to the Police arriving?

Gonna be hard work to try to find how a guy refusing to leave a premises when asked by the employee is the good guy, but I trust you'll find a way.

My life experience is that people who make a point of getting into heated arguments with service staff are generally not very nice people. Seems this racist was successful in getting under the clerk's skin, which is regrettable. I imagine the beating was quite cathartic, in addition to being fully justified as lawful self defense. Too bad the cops decided to spoil the fun by being their usual pig selves.

Raymond Rachal was working at Best Western’s front desk in Fort Lauderdale when a hotel guest was “spewing racial slurs” at him, so he decided to “exercise his right” to cancel his stay, according to Crump. The surveillance video Crump shared shows the guest rushing behind the front desk to attack Rachal.

 

[bruto]

The clerk does not appear to be emotionally composed. If one didn't know any better, one might conclude that he was the belligerent drunk. He seems to be escalating the situation, including loudly mocking the drunk as he first leaves. I wonder the full extent of what took place prior to the Police arriving?

I suppose you might conclude that he's the belligerent drunk if you assume that the police have no reason to know who is and is not at the hotel in their neighborhood, if they took no note of who was making the call that brought them, and if you assume that the belligerent drunk is behind the counter and the non-belligerent person standing in the lobby, and not contesting his position, is the compliant clerk or something. Or maybe not really. Is there some rule whereby the person who belongs there is not allowed to be as belligerent as the person who does not? Must we have the particulars of prior events to guess that one person belongs there and one does not?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Well spank my ass and call me Donny...what have we here? Yet another heavily spun OP tale. Breaking it down and filling in the curiously absent details:



At no point is it claimed that the clerk, Rachal, called the police. Bodycam footage showed a calm, slow moving drunk guest, and Rachal (in the words of the reporter) being "less than cooperative" with police. Yeah, understatement of the year. Rachal was belligerent and screaming at the cops, eventually prancing around screaming 70's tunes and dabbing. Dude looked like he was tripping balls.

Drunk was ordered off the premises by police, and no action taken against Rachal. So far, full win for our intrepid clerk.



LOL, "managed to get the upper hand"? Rachal threw the first and apparently only punches after el drunko ran at him, and proceeded to beat said drunk bloody, long beyond simple defense or restraint.



Bull ****. The story reports quite clearly that another guest called police. Rachal was busy beating the drunk into next week.



Not quite. Cops arrive to find Rachal on top of the face-down drunk and pursuing a recreational beating.

Here's the fun part: Rachal, on bodycam, chest-bumps one of the cops in the midst of his aggressive behavior. I kind of have a feeling that that is the reason why he was charged with resisting on the spot, before the surveillance footage was reviewed.

The cops gave the drunk a ride to the drunk's friend's house. He was again calm and slow-speaking. While that is weird, as far as the police knew at the time, he was probably viewed as the victim of a violent beating, no matter who started it. They had his info and could follow up with appropriate charges later.



I guess that bodycammed chest-bump was Rachal just misstepping while continuing his improvised song and dance recital?

Plus or minus, the cops seemed ok here. They ejected the drunk the first time, with no action against the clerk (except to ask him to stop shouting at them). The second time, Rachal was clearly enjoying a heaping helping of beat-down, and then decided to get rowdy with the cops. That is a separate offense, and dealt with separately. You can argue that "resisting" is too strong a description, but cops don't generally like people screaming at them and slamming their chests into them. Some find that a bit aggressive.

ETA: Correction to above: I just chased down the full surveillance video, and Rachal had the drunk pinned face-down, and was not continuing the beating. Police arrived and went straight after Rachal, and did in fact shove him around and restrain him immediately. Rachal did not chest-bump at all.

It's truly impressive how utterly wrong, on a simple factual level, everything in this reply is. Come on, you're toying with us now, right? I think you're tipping your cards a bit too much by going this obtuse, it's not really believable.

 

[Thermal]

Not sure what your point is. The clerk was arrested and falsely charged. He's pursuing a civil lawsuit against the city that his rights were violated, aka he was victimized. He himself is claiming he is the victim of mistreatment, there's no reason to speculate about how he views it.

People don't sue the cops when they think everything was fine.

Ok, so you are saying pretty clearly then that the 'Assault' Rachal was 'victimized' by was the police arrest, not the drunk's rush?

 

[Thermal]

It's truly impressive how utterly wrong, on a simple factual level, everything in this reply is. Come on, you're toying with us now, right? I think you're tipping your cards a bit too much by going this obtuse, it's not really believable.

I think you forgot to read the ETA to the post you are responding to, conveniently hilited for emphasis, and subsequent posts. Several, in fact. You are tipping your hand that you want to argue about something else, rather than the actual ongoing discussion.

 

[Warp12]

I suppose you might conclude that he's the belligerent drunk if you assume that the police have no reason to know who is and is not at the hotel in their neighborhood, if they took no note of who was making the call that brought them, and if you assume that the belligerent drunk is behind the counter and the non-belligerent person standing in the lobby, and not contesting his position, is the compliant clerk or something. Or maybe not really. Is there some rule whereby the person who belongs there is not allowed to be as belligerent as the person who does not? Must we have the particulars of prior events to guess that one person belongs there and one does not?

You are debating something I am not arguing. I am saying, the clerk was fairly belligerent...and this can be seen on the video from the initial encounter. As far as how people handle their emotions, well, we expect such behavior out of a drunk. A hotel clerk, maybe not.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Ok, so you are saying pretty clearly then that the 'Assault' Rachal was 'victimized' by was the police arrest, not the drunk's rush?

Both.

I don't know why you insist projecting some macho fantasy onto the motives of others. Many people do not enjoy being put into a situation where they have to use violence in self defense. It's stressful, frightening in the moment, and a massive transgression. It's nice that Rachal didn't end up getting his teeth kicked in during this exchange, but I'm somehow doubting he would consider this anything but an extremely negative experience.

Do you think Rachal enjoyed rolling around on the ground with some man who obviously intended to cause him harm if he managed to get the opportunity?

Or are you still pretending that the man who had just been trespassed from the property was charging the clerk for anything but the obvious, violent reasons? Maybe he just wanted to whisper an apology into the clerk's ear and was misunderstood when he went crashing behind the counter.

 

[bruto]

Ok, so you are saying pretty clearly then that the 'Assault' Rachal was 'victimized' by was the police arrest, not the drunk's rush?

I thought it was clear that it was both. Of course we are not told whether the clerk is pursuing any action against the drunk, who may not even reside in the town. He was also, of course, drunk. The police, we can hope, were not. I see no reason to reject the clerk's choice of whom to sue even if it's a choice we would make differently.

 

[Warp12]

Raymond Rachal was working at Best Western’s front desk in Fort Lauderdale when a hotel guest was “spewing racial slurs” at him, so he decided to “exercise his right” to cancel his stay, according to Crump.

Oh, there was alleged name-calling involved? This changes everything.

As I say, it sure would be nice to know what happened prior to the Police arrival.

 

[plague311]

Oh, there was alleged name-calling involved? This changes everything.

As I say, it sure would be nice to know what happened prior to the Police arrival.

Yeah, tough to victim blame if you don't have anything to really blame the victim with...

 

[varwoche]

I get OP's point. Drunk white guy takes a run at the black clerk, but the black guy ends up being the one arrested while the white drunk is given a free Uber service. Looks mightily like playing favorites, there.

But Rachal was not merely defending himself against the initial drunk charge. He was well into "teaching this bitch a lesson" territory. Ya gots to knock the halo off his head somewhere in that timeline.

I don't see it this way at all. The guy assaulted the clerk seconds earlier and had yet to be subdued..

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I don't see it this way at all. The guy assaulted the clerk seconds earlier and had yet to be subdued..

Gotta make sure you set your "tedious contrarian" setting to 'on', then watch it again.

ETA: It's probably my fault, some posters can't seem to resist having terrible opinions whenever they see the "while black" titles

 

[Thermal]

Both.

I don't know why you insist projecting some macho fantasy onto the motives of others. Many people do not enjoy being put into a situation where they have to use violence in self defense. It's stressful, frightening in the moment, and a massive transgression. It's nice that Rachal didn't end up getting his teeth kicked in during this exchange, but I'm somehow doubting he would consider this anything but an extremely negative experience.

You really need to interact with real people some more.

Do you think Rachal enjoyed rolling around on the ground with some man who obviously intended to cause him harm if he managed to get the opportunity?

From the tiny bit we have seen of him? Abso-*******-lutely. It may come as a shock to you, but some guys are not in the slightest bit fearful of someone that they feel confident they can handle. Even many black men, dude. They are not the timid little victimized rabbits you are portraying them as.

If asked how many times I have been personally "victimized by assault", I usually answer about 4 or 6. Those were the times that I recall not coming out of it so well, and was in fear of actually being damaged. By your standard, it would be well over a dozen, just as a full-on adult (due to the low class of watering holes I tended to frequent). But I don't consider a drunk at a bar an assaulter, if I am clear-headed. I am not in fear, although I have to act.

And I don't believe you that you don't understand this. You're not stupid, man. I don't believe for a second that you think Rachal was in any way timid or fearful of a confrontation with drunky boy. He leapt up without a moments hesitation and proceeded to beat the white off that little bitch. no warning, no hesitation, and no fumbling. He knew what he was doing and I don't believe he was victimized, or even in fear, much less didn't actively like it. He was calling all the shots from word go.

Or are you still pretending that the man who had just been trespassed from the property was charging the clerk for anything but the obvious, violent reasons? Maybe he just wanted to whisper an apology into the clerk's ear and was misunderstood when he went crashing behind the counter.

You're being full-on dishonest, now. Of course drunky boy was trying to attack him. Rachal, to his credit, was not victimized by it, though. He took care of business with admirable efficiency.

Have you ever heard of someone who was raped objecting to being called a 'victim'? They prefer 'survivor'. Similar here, but Rachal did not survive the drunk's rush: he dominated the punk.

 

[Thermal]

Gotta make sure you set your "tedious contrarian" setting to 'on', then watch it again.

ETA: It's probably my fault, some posters can't seem to resist having terrible opinions whenever they see the "while black" titles

Yeah, seeing black people constantly portrayed as passive victims can get under your skin after a few years. I should probably spend more time in places that aren't as overwhelmingly, stunningly white as this one.

You guys do know that this is like the only place I am aware of with no black voices speaking out, right? It's like really ******* weird.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You really need to interact with real people some more.



From the tiny bit we have seen of him? Abso-*******-lutely. It may come as a shock to you, but some guys are not in the slightest bit fearful of someone that they feel confident they can handle. Even many black men, dude. They are not the timid little victimized rabbits you are portraying them as.

If asked how many times I have been personally "victimized by assault", I usually answer about 4 or 6. Those were the times that I recall not coming out of it so well, and was in fear of actually being damaged. By your standard, it would be well over a dozen, just as a full-on adult (due to the low class of watering holes I tended to frequent). But I don't consider a drunk at a bar an assaulter, if I am clear-headed. I am not in fear, although I have to act.

And I don't believe you that you don't understand this. You're not stupid, man. I don't believe for a second that you think Rachal was in any way timid or fearful of a confrontation with drunky boy. He leapt up without a moments hesitation and proceeded to beat the white off that little bitch. no warning, no hesitation, and no fumbling. He knew what he was doing and I don't believe he was victimized, or even in fear, much less didn't actively like it. He was calling all the shots from word go.

You may be shocked to know this, but I very much doubt very many people enjoy getting in casual fights as much as you seem to think.

Calling the shots is when you're ambushed at work by a guy who runs behind the counter. K.

I would agree the clerk had good instincts. Faced with the unexpected situation of a man sprinting through the door and pushing behind the counter, throwing a punch is a good reflex. It's nice it worked out for our clerk, but by no means was he in charge of the situation.

Any chance he might have had to enjoy his righteous victory was pissed all over by the pigs who treated him as a criminal and gave his assailant the white glove treatment. You can't even enjoy a justice boner without the cops pouring cold water on everything.

You're being full-on dishonest, now. Of course drunky boy was trying to attack him. Rachal, to his credit, was not victimized by it, though. He took care of business with admirable efficiency.

Have you ever heard of someone who was raped objecting to being called a 'victim'? They prefer 'survivor'. Similar here, but Rachal did not survive the drunk's rush: he dominated the punk.

Now you're playing semantics. Using either term it's quite clear that you're describing someone who was harmed by another. Nobody using the term "survivor" is trying to imply they didn't mind being attacked.

Yeah, seeing black people constantly portrayed as passive victims can get under your skin after a few years. I should probably spend more time in places that aren't as overwhelmingly, stunningly white as this one.

You guys do know that this is like the only place I am aware of with no black voices speaking out, right? It's like really ******* weird.

Considering the other tedious arguments you have made in other similar threads, this strikes me as more your own personal baggage than anything. I don't know why you seem to assume that everyone being victimized must be some timid, shrinking violet, but perhaps you could unpack this personal hangup elsewhere.

 

[bruto]

Oh, there was alleged name-calling involved? This changes everything.

As I say, it sure would be nice to know what happened prior to the Police arrival.

Right, because the first principle of the eye roller is to presume that the clerk's account is a lie.

 

[Thermal]

Right, because the first principle of the eye roller is to presume that the clerk's account is a lie.

I think he means it doesn't matter, and that calling attention to it is an attempt to demonize the drunk, and by extension angelify Rachal.

Drunky boy was drunk and asked to leave, apparently rightly so. The slurs he used don't really matter, do they? No one questions whether making him leave was justified, or if he started it. This OP tale starts midway, as footage was released which seems to have changed the perception of a story already being reported on.