BBC2 Conspiracy Files 9/11
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I loved the show. At least one error I think; they showed the old 'pancake' collapse theory for the TTs where the trusses fail, did they not? Just a technicality though. I thought they could have done a better job on the WTC in general but the parts about 93 and the Pgon were great.
Fetzer, Jones and Avery. Three despicable slimebag opportunists!
Fetzer, Jones and Avery. Three despicable slimebag opportunists!
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The Doc
Curing Stupidity
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Yeah I noticed that. I saw the PBS model come up and just went "Awwww..."
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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Yeah there were a few little things. I think it shows how much we all know about the subject!
Another was how they summed up the ATC/NORAD actions on 9/11 in the first section. They implied there was chaos and failure due to lack of preparation. The reality was, in SPITE of chaos due to information overload, they responded very well.
The best thing of all is the programme made the three key CTers look like complete and utter morons.
-Gumboot
The best thing of all is the programme made the three key CTers look like complete and utter morons.
Yes! I'd never seen Jones in full evangelical mode like that. Spooky. It's clearly gone to his head.
What did Fetzer say, something like, 'a plane could not have hit the pentagon threfore no plane hit the pentagon!' Just empty dogma. Funny stuff.
Yes! I'd never seen Jones in full evangelical mode like that. Spooky. It's clearly gone to his head.
What did Fetzer say, something like, 'a plane could not have hit the pentagon threfore no plane hit the pentagon!' Just empty dogma. Funny stuff.
LashL
Goddess of Legaltainment™
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On the upside:
1) Do-Over Dylan Avery comes across as a juvenile, uneducated, ill-informed, seriously deluded, tinhat-wearing moron incapable of carrying on a serious conversation with adults. No surprise there.
2) Fetzer comes across as a seriously deluded, tinhat-wearing moron and all around nutcase on all fronts, incapable of rational thought in any way, shape or form. He looks seriously crazy throughout this video. Not exactly surprising, that.
3) Jones comes across as a seriously deluded, uneducated, ill-informed, nutcase looking for a Jim Jones or David Koresh style following to willingly drink his koolaid. But he looks seriously crazy in every video he's ever been in, so again, no surprise.
4) The interview with the C-130 pilot, Steve O'Brien. Brilliant.
5) The interview with the X-Files guy explaining why tinhatters are so delusional from the perspective of someone who makes his living by understanding how to sell nonsense to the delusional. Brilliant.
On the downside,
1) There was so much more that they could have and should have done to dispel so many more aspects of tinhat conspiracy BS.
2) It would have been so easy to carry out (1) above if they'd only asked around here
3) They used an erroneous and long debunked graphic near the end, and they should have known better.
Just a quick and dirty mini-review, for what little it's worth, as I have to get some sleep soon, but those are my preliminary observations/reactions to the show.
1) Do-Over Dylan Avery comes across as a juvenile, uneducated, ill-informed, seriously deluded, tinhat-wearing moron incapable of carrying on a serious conversation with adults. No surprise there.
2) Fetzer comes across as a seriously deluded, tinhat-wearing moron and all around nutcase on all fronts, incapable of rational thought in any way, shape or form. He looks seriously crazy throughout this video. Not exactly surprising, that.
3) Jones comes across as a seriously deluded, uneducated, ill-informed, nutcase looking for a Jim Jones or David Koresh style following to willingly drink his koolaid. But he looks seriously crazy in every video he's ever been in, so again, no surprise.
4) The interview with the C-130 pilot, Steve O'Brien. Brilliant.
5) The interview with the X-Files guy explaining why tinhatters are so delusional from the perspective of someone who makes his living by understanding how to sell nonsense to the delusional. Brilliant.
On the downside,
1) There was so much more that they could have and should have done to dispel so many more aspects of tinhat conspiracy BS.
2) It would have been so easy to carry out (1) above if they'd only asked around here
3) They used an erroneous and long debunked graphic near the end, and they should have known better.
Just a quick and dirty mini-review, for what little it's worth, as I have to get some sleep soon, but those are my preliminary observations/reactions to the show.
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gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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My favourite bit is Fetzer says it is impossible for a plane to have hit The Pentagon, AND he says the C-130 was controlling the plane that hit The Pentagon.
Astounding.
-Gumboot
Alareth
Philosopher
I casually followed a link to the UK 9/11 site and the first thing i see is a complaint that they didn't bring up the "ISI connection" or "Northwoods"
These people are just drones, with limited brain capacity that only allows them to store a handful of rote statements and ideas that play in an endless loop.
These people are just drones, with limited brain capacity that only allows them to store a handful of rote statements and ideas that play in an endless loop.
I think the programme demonstrated that the so called "Truthseekers" don't do elementary checks and just make stuff up.
e.g. "The crash site of UA93 is 6.9 miles from where wreckage, including engines, was found at Indian Lake"
FACT. The only wreckage found at Indian Lake, according to local witnesses, was paper and bits of insulation which were almost certainly blown there by the wind. Also, Indian Lake is 6.9 miles from the crash site by road. As the crow flies its one mile.
I have to say that its kind of ironic that the kind of crazies who accused Clinton of being a murderer are now plaguing Bush. As far as they're concerned he's now the Washington Establishment.
e.g. "The crash site of UA93 is 6.9 miles from where wreckage, including engines, was found at Indian Lake"
FACT. The only wreckage found at Indian Lake, according to local witnesses, was paper and bits of insulation which were almost certainly blown there by the wind. Also, Indian Lake is 6.9 miles from the crash site by road. As the crow flies its one mile.
I have to say that its kind of ironic that the kind of crazies who accused Clinton of being a murderer are now plaguing Bush. As far as they're concerned he's now the Washington Establishment.
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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I found the Indian Lake thing really interesting. I'd actually never come across the 6.9 miles distance before. I'd heard 8 miles. Of course, that was from "8 square miles". 8 sq mi, for a plane crash, is a very small debris field. I'd expect an aircraft that broke up in the air to spread debris over hundreds of miles.
-Gumboot
-Gumboot
Which graphic was that?
On the whole, I thought the program did well to use the "give them enough rope" technique. Introducing the 9-11 deniers as (iirc) "a self-confessed drop out", a "doctor of philosophy", and a "radio talk show host" was a neat way of demonstrating how qualified they are to speak about the technicalities of 9-11.
Of course, the program could have been twice as long, but as it was it summarised the arguments okay.
No, it was 8 miles away, in New Baltimore: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/penn.attack/ . That's another problem with the programme, they mentioned Indian Lake but didn't cover this debris from further away at all.
Anyway, a radio talk show is apparently going to allow people to respond to the programme. It's on BBC radio 5 & you can listen online from http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive.shtml . The show starts at 9:00 am GMT, in just over 30 minutes, but I'm not sure when they''ll be discussing 9/11 - might not be for another hour or so.
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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I believe they're talking about the animation that shows the floor trusses failing and breaking free of the core.
In fact the trusses didn't break away, which is why the building collapsed.
Which reminds me, they had a shot of the collapse I had never seen.
It was right on a corner, and at the moment of failure you can clearly see the individual columns buckle and twist before collapsing.
Leaves no doubt that the collapse was gravity induced, not explosive induced.
-Gumboot
The Doc
Curing Stupidity
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Wow,
I'm just looking at all the replies in the "LC In The Media" forum over at the LC boards.
Apparently the documentary was "bias as all hell". What I saw was mainly facts. So it is proven. The facts are bias and they aren't favoring the conspiracy.
No constructive criticism in the threads... just stuff like "Bush himself probably commisioned this".
Pure entertainment those forums. Nothing more lol.
I'm just looking at all the replies in the "LC In The Media" forum over at the LC boards.
Apparently the documentary was "bias as all hell". What I saw was mainly facts. So it is proven. The facts are bias and they aren't favoring the conspiracy.
No constructive criticism in the threads... just stuff like "Bush himself probably commisioned this".
Pure entertainment those forums. Nothing more lol.
ref
Master Poster
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They can not say anything else. Just some meaningless denial phrases, because they have nothing to back them up. If they ever woke up and saw they have nothing..