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Bashing

Joined
Nov 8, 2001
Messages
501
I wonder why the US are so keen in bashing France and Germany when Russia has announced to veto a resolution that would automatically lead to a war as well and when almost the whole of the UN is opposed to a war.

Are the US simple minded? Do they habe problems with the idea that not a few but the majority of nations are opposed to their plans to wage war in Iraq?
 
Originally posted by armageddonman:
Are the US simple minded? Do they habe problems with the idea that not a few but the majority of nations are opposed to their plans to wage war in Iraq?

This is a bit rich. What about Chirac and Villepin's outbursts towards "New Europe"? You should worry about the elephants in your own living room before decrying those simpleminded Americans.
 
Americans are no less intelligent or violent than any other group of people. Their leadership is imperialistic and corrupt.

In order to steer public opinion towards their own goals the oligarchy that runs that country must create villains. It is far easier to pick one other country and blame them for everything, than to present an honest picture of opposition to its agenda. France isn't being represented as France. France is the general term for any country that opposes the oligarchy's war agenda.

Iraq is the representation of terrorism. It used to be Afghanistan.

We are at war with East Asia. We have always been at war with East Asia.
 
Shane Costello said:



This is a bit rich. What about Chirac and Villepin's outbursts towards "New Europe"? You should worry about the elephants in your own living room before decrying those simpleminded Americans.

Shane, why dont you address the point armageddonman was trying to make and not use his post to bash him just because he is from Europe?
 
armageddonman said:
Are the US simple minded? Do they habe problems with the idea that not a few but the majority of nations are opposed to their plans to wage war in Iraq?

I, as a US citizen, am far from simple minded and I have no problem w/ the majority of nations being opposed - they are wrong.

Fleischer told reporters: "The diplomatic window has closed as a result of the U.N.'s failure to enforce its own resolutions for Saddam to disarm."

League of Nations anyone??

Regards,
Barkhorn.
 
Yea, well....

kourama said:


Iraq is the representation of terrorism. It used to be Afghanistan.

We are at war with East Asia. We have always been at war with East Asia.

"If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck...."

Barkhorn.
 
It always amuses me when the US expresses outrage over another country's defiance of the UN. Especially when we are planning on going to war against the UN's wishes.

Hypocrisy anyone?
 
Re: Yea, well....

Barkhorn1x said:


"If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck...."

Barkhorn.

Did anyone see Dana Carvey on Conan OBrien a couple of weeks ago? Doing a Ross Perot impression:

"If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it might just be a spastic monkey with flat feet. You see what I'm saying here?"

(back to my comment in the Saturday Night Live thread about how SNL impressions these days try too hard to be "accurate." This wasn't accurate at all, but dang was it funny)
 
Renfield said:
It always amuses me when the US expresses outrage over another country's defiance of the UN. Especially when we are planning on going to war against the UN's wishes.

Hypocrisy anyone?

I think it is more along the lines of "If the UN won't enforce its own resolutions in as easy a case as this, why should we listen to them either?" Maybe they can warn us with empty words too.
 
France has been the center of attention because the perception is that they are going out of their way to sabotage Bush's efforts. Theyre not just saying no, they are actively recruiting dissenters.

Plus there's the history of France's lack of co-operation (the bombing of Libya). Alot of Americans have gotto thinking that the French have never acted as allies.
 
“Deathroll
Read my lips

G W Bush will go down in history as a belligerent aggressor.”

That is, unless, if our military acts in the same professional manner that has been a hallmark for the last 30 years.

That is, unless, the weapons that we have been saying are in Iraq’s possession, we find them and hold them under those fine French noses.

That is, unless, the people of Iraq are even a little better off without Sad-um
 
This article published over a year ago illuminates French attitudes towards the United States as they were then.
The French people and government have demonstrated extraordinary sympathy and solidarity for the United States in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Spontaneous gestures of friendship towards Americans in France, including symbolic acts such as the playing of the American national anthem at the Elysée Palace, underlined the degree to which much of the French public felt themselves victims of the attack along with the Americans. The newspaper Le Monde—not known for reflexive Atlanticism—editorialized on September 13 that "We are all Americans." It even began publishing daily full-page English-language coverage of the story drawn from the New York Times,. Some in France, of course, have dissociated themselves from the expressions of solidarity, and instead blame American foreign policy for the climate in which the attacks occurred.

For the most part, however, September 11 has brought the French public closer to the United States. After recent concern over a supposedly growing transatlantic "cultural gap" on issues such as the death penalty, abortion, gun control and religion, the attacks have served as a sharp reminder of the values and interests that Americans and Europeans still have in common.

French leaders from across the political spectrum have, with few exceptions, expressed solidarity with and support for the United States. While traditionally reluctant to see NATO's role enhanced, or the scope of its missions expanded, France did not hesitate to support the invocation of NATO's Article 5 mutual defense guarantee. President Jacques Chirac and other leaders have made clear France's readiness to take part alongside the United States in a possible military retaliation, a stance supported by no less than 73% of the French.
Second, to the extent that French leaders accept that a military response is necessary, they believe it should be limited as much as possible to precise terrorist targets, rather than countries or regimes more broadly. "You can't strike blindly," Chirac warned while in Washington. And Jospin emphasized that military strikes must be "proportional, strategically and militarily justified, and politically coherent."
It was France that went to the UN Security Council as early as September 12 to propose a resolution condemning the attacks and having them declared a "threat to international peace and security" under the Charter's Chapter VII concerning the use of force.
(Chapter VII resolutions are the ones that authorize force.)

The French have been bashed unfairly.
 
Originally posted by armageddonman:
A "?" is a questionmark. And I'm not french.

Yes but Germany has been France's poddle for decades now.

To answer your question France and Germany carry much more weight than Russia at this moment in time. Russias economy isn't any bigger than Holland's.

Originally posted by Kourama:
Americans are no less intelligent or violent than any other group of people. Their leadership is imperialistic and corrupt.

The same can definitely be said about France.


In order to steer public opinion towards their own goals the oligarchy that runs that country must create villains

The French have found theirs in the form of American "Hyperpower", the enroachment of the Encglish language and "Anglo-Saxon" economic values.
 
Shane Costello said:
Originally posted by armageddonman:
Russias economy isn't any bigger than Holland's.
Insulting Holland's economy now? Are there no depths to which you won't sink? :D
 
Originally posted by iain:
Insulting Holland's economy now? Are there no depths to which you won't sink? :D

It's not my fault. My tulip and Edam allergies prevent me from commenting rationally on the Dutch economy!
 
I've addressed them.

"To answer your question France and Germany carry much more weight than Russia at this moment in time. Russias economy isn't any bigger than Holland's."

I mean, we haven't heard of "The Sound of Music" being boycotted, even though Austria's opposition to any US led military action is as stringent as France or Germany's.

Now address the point I made. Why are you getting so annoyed about American simplemindedness, when there's plenty simple mindedness on your own doorstep to worry about?
 

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